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Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: That process was mentioned in the 2011 report. Perhaps it can be revisited in light of that at another stage.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: The Deputy put the question to Mr. O'Brien. In fairness to Mr. O'Brien, that is not why he is here. Having said that, if Mr. O'Brien feels he wants to answer, that is fine. It sounds like a good topical issue for the floor of the House.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: A "steadying off"?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: How old is that debt?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: Perhaps the witnesses can tell us the oldest claim.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: I will not delay the meeting. We have had a fair exchange and sharing of information. I want to clear up a number of points. Mr. Woods referred to the legacy issues, the health boards, the 50 agencies and so on. The HSE was established in 2005 and in all of those years, the legacy issues were not dealt with; proper computerised systems were not installed to read the delivery of services...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: How much would it cost to put this in place?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: I accept that. The HSE had significant budgets over those years. At the last meeting, the then chief executive officer, Mr. Magee, admitted that the systems were not fit for purpose. Acknowledging that in 2012, not having done anything about it from the establishment of the HSE in 2005, in spite of the report to which Mr. Woods referred, would seem to me to be a complete breakdown of...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: The HSE has been in place since 2005.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: Would Dr. McLoughlin from the Department of Health and Mr. O'Brien from the HSE accept that something was at fault since 2005, which did not draw all these legacy issues together in terms of technology and reporting, and that is the reason we find ourselves in this situation today? There were also 50 agencies involved. It think it was at the last meeting with the HSE that we found there was...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: The experience has been a positive.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: That is what I offer here every Thursday. The Secretary General is welcome to come before us any Thursday.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: Deputy O'Donnell referred to the figure of €74 million. Are there other outstanding debt figures for the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: Perhaps the witnesses would comment on the issue of absenteeism.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: What was the cost of absenteeism last year and what is the cost to date this year?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: What were the other costs?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: In terms of staffing levels, we have heard reports about significant numbers of middle to senior management staff. Are the witnesses happy that these are all required and that their skills are being utilised in the appropriate place?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: On rest days, according to a report €2.6 million to €3.4 million was paid in 2011.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote Management and Budgetary Situation in 2012: Discussion with Department of Health and HSE (9 Oct 2012)

John McGuinness: That is fine. I have two final questions. GPs were overpaid by €3 million, based on medical cards, between 2002-2007. Has this money being recouped?

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