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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: That was discussed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I thank Mr. McDonnell.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I propose we suspend the sitting for a few minutes to allow the witnesses to vacate their seats and the next witnesses to take theirs. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: The next module concludes today's engagement on pre-budget submissions. As I have told other witnesses that have appeared before the committee today, the purpose of this meeting is not to go into a detailed presentation of pre-budget submissions or for members to make statements. It is an opportunity to drill down to specific proposals contained in a submission, or to get a better insight...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: There will be a compliance element to this as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I am familiar enough with the concept. If one takes a model of a €20,000 extension or insulation programme with a 25% tax incentive going to the builder, however, what would the return be to the Exchequer?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: How would it work? Talk me through it, for example, in the case of a €20,000 insulation programme.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I refer to funding the €3 billion programme. As we are hearing presentations from 16 groups, I want to drill down into the property tax proposals. Regardless of what discussions took place, what is ICTU actually proposing?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Is ICTU proposing a valuation-based model?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Is congress proposing a banded model or one that is indexed to the precise valuation of the property?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I will push Mr. Sweeney on this point. If one is committing the State to spending €3 billion, one must be extremely specific with one's tax-raising measures. How does congress expect to do this?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: If there are to be a lot of exemptions, how is the money going to come in?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Yes, but I must push Mr. Sweeney on this point. I understand a banded system. The United Kingdom, operates such a system, which I consider to be highly flawed because the band begins at £800 and ends at £1,200. Consequently, it means that if one is Del Boy Trotter living out in Nelson Mandela House, one is paying £800 while if one is Queen Elizabeth, living in Buckingham...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I am not talking about Mr. Sweeney's personal view. I am talking about the ICTU submission before the joint committee this afternoon.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: It is not vague on spending €3 billion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: ICTU has brought a proposal to the Government and that is the subject on which I am pushing Mr. Sweeney.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: But you keep-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: However, Mr. Sweeney keeps making them in the hope they will be accepted. The witnesses were invited before the joint committee to be given a hearing on their prebudget submissions. I believe this is the first time a joint committee has ever done so. Consequently, I invite Mr. Sweeney to explain to me in detail how ICTU would implement and operate its property tax model.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Mr. Sweeney should provide an indication of the first band Where would it begin and how much would it be?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Pre-Budget Submissions: Discussion with Civic Society Representatives and Focus Groups (8 Nov 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: We all have-----

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