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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

John Deasy: I thank the officials for their response. The Secretary General has provided a basic explanation and has used the figure of 4,600 units to begin with, of which 1,900 are suitable. A total of 750 of these have been resolved and the Department hopes a further 1,000 are to be resolved and will be added to this and used for all intents and purposes. What is the timeline involved?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

John Deasy: This is part of a major issue being faced by this country, namely, the availability of housing in general, and social housing is a big part of that. I read some figures yesterday suggesting that while it is necessary to build 25,000 units per annum, only 6,500 are being built per year. Consequently, there is a time element involved, even though it represents a small percentage of these...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

John Deasy: What does that mean? I refer to the private element Mr. McCarthy has just mentioned.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

John Deasy: The Department is kind of searching. If it uses the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund as a vehicle, it will be seeking private equity from outside the country, if necessary, to match that public funding to build houses.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

John Deasy: That is the direction being taken.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

John Deasy: In other words, we effectively cannot afford to do it ourselves.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Business of Select Sub-Committee (1 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: This will not take long and I appreciate this opportunity to give notice that I will table amendments on Report Stage. Their substance concerns Part 6 of the Bill, relating to the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund. In essence, I seek to ensure this fund takes account of balanced regional development. When the fund is in place via legislation the agency administering it should pay due...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: When the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport was before the committee, the Road Safety Authority, RSA, was also present. I asked it to provide us with information on an analysis of causation of accidents, in particular blood alcohol levels. The committee asked the RSA to provide us with the information. Did we send a formal request? If we did, perhaps we could follow it up and try...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: I welcome the deputation. I intend to come at this a little differently because the subject matter has been dealt with comprehensively by members. I will give the deputation my take on what has happened here, why we are in this room and how the position has evolved in recent months. Furthermore, I will ask some questions with regard to public pay policy. There seems to be almost an...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: I do not agree with that for one second; I think the HSE is very much involved and always has been. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform signs on the dotted line. The HSE is asked for its input and knowledge when a policy is formulated. If Ms McGuinness is telling me the HSE has nothing to do with public pay policy for section 38 organisations and in this area, I do not believe...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: Is there any circumstance in which Ms McGuinness could see somebody being paid over the odds with regard to public pay policy that would have a benefit for an organisation or the health care sector? She should not run around that question. Is there such a circumstance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: There is a danger that we have regressed to a situation where it is only appropriate to pay an individual who is incredibly skilled and suited to an organisation a certain amount and that a pay level above and beyond that figure is not being tolerated. Negative results accrue from this. That is not taken into consideration. Mr. Goulding has made it very clear that there was no contrivance...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: I think the HSE knew very well for years what people were being paid and there are people in it who would make the same argument as me. It has been railroaded into this because it was not doing its job. There is a danger for the health sector and those organisations, including section 38 organisations, that this is too confined. I believe in the free market, even when it involves...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: I am interested in pay policy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: It seems to me there is an element of fiscal political correctness creeping into the debate around these issues. It is important to bear in mind that we arrived here artificially. In other countries, they look at the issue pragmatically. It happens all the time that consideration is given to the fact that where a large salary is given, the individual in receipt of it should have the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: I acknowledged that at the outset.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: This entire thing is slightly disingenuous. Mr. Goulding has explained that Mr. Kiely's pay was set at a particular level and he did not receive any increases. It was a case of the benchmarking system that was in place at a time when people had different perceptions when it came to pay and salaries. I am not using CRC as the example for the policy argument; charities are different and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: I agree with that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: I agree with that based on the disparity within the charitable sector; one has to separate that out. However, as far as the other issue is concerned - and this is addressed to all the delegates - by limiting pay, notwithstanding the business case exceptions, the question must be asked as to whether we are damaging or weakening the sector by kowtowing to political considerations. The HSE...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

John Deasy: If Mr. Healy finds one organisation where that is the case, I could find another where it is not.

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