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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: I thank the witnesses for coming and the submissions made. At the end of this process, we will produce a report that will have recommendations. The contents of the submissions and what is said today is very important for the purposes of us finalising our recommendations. All the witnesses agree that the first immediate obstacle to a person accessing justice is awareness of the law. In...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Do the witnesses think the Oireachtas should consider its role and see if there is another way it can simply communicate laws that are passed here? When they are passed and promulgated by the President, we do not do much to inform the public about them. There is no big announcement. It is hard to understand complicated statutory laws. Do the witnesses think that another way of making...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Where is the greatest demand at present from people for legal services? Is it in the area of housing or in consumer areas? What other aspect of the law is most required to be conveyed to people at present?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: One of the points all the witnesses made was that the fear of a costs order can be an obstacle to accessing justice. In the WRC there is no prospect of a costs order being made against somebody. Does Ms O'Sullivan think that makes things fairer? She said there is still inequality there. What does she think of the proposal that if one removes the possibility of costs orders being made...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: The solution to that issue, one would think, is that the civil legal aid scheme should be expanded to cover the WRC and other tribunals such as the Social Welfare Tribunal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: One cannot use the civil legal scheme in respect of the Residential Tenancies Board.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Ms Keatinge would want to see it applied to that as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Professor Whyte spoke about protective costs orders. Obviously, they are available but, as he said, one cannot have a personal interest in the outcome of the case. He also mentioned class actions. When people hear about class actions one of their concerns is that they could be like the class actions in America in which lawyers end up taking a large percentage of the pot that is recovered....

Written Answers — Department of Justice and Equality: European Arrest Warrant (17 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: 248. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality the number of requests received under the European arrest warrant Act 2003 that sought the extradition of persons for human trafficking and or human smuggling offences in each of the years 2017, 2018 and to date in 2019; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52557/19]

Written Answers — Department of Justice and Equality: Ministerial Functions (17 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: 270. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality the process upon which a scheme may be designated under section 2A(7) of the Landlord and Conveyancing Law Reform (Amendment) Act 2019; his plans to create regulations for the designation of such schemes; the number of schemes designated since the commencement of section 2A; and if he will make a statement on the matter....

Written Answers — Department of Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Data (17 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: 640. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs the number of refuge places available by county in tabular form; her plans to increase the number in line with the obligations under the Istanbul Convention; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [52718/19]

Written Answers — Department of Justice and Equality: Garda Resources (18 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: 208. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality the status of the modernisation of the PULSE system; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [53602/19]

Written Answers — Department of Justice and Equality: Garda Training (18 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: 209. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality the number of gardaí who have received specialist training to interview minors who have been victims of sexual abuse; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [53605/19]

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: I thank everyone for coming in here and for their submissions. I have been a barrister for a long time. Usually, I do not like to give speeches about my own assessment but I will give these entities my assessment of how legal costs could be reduced. I want to hear what they have to say in respect of it. It is helpful that we have here before us today two of the largest purchasers of legal...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: I understand the point Mr. Mack is making. I suppose third-party costs to a large extent will be determined by the costs that the State or the insurance company is paying out. If there is a medical negligence case or another case the State is involved in, is there some mechanism whereby barristers could tender their price for that case and the State could decide, as in any other procurement...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Who does that? Is it the Chief State Solicitor's office that originally-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: I do not believe it puts out to tender individual cases so that individuals could say, "I'll do that case for X".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: In her submission, Ms Goggin referred to the report done in 2006 and she stated that it was a very anti-competitive profession. My assessment is that it is an extremely competitive place but the reason costs are not coming down is because people are not availing of the full panoply of people who are available and are sticking with the same people most of the time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: They do that already. One can go on the Law Library of Ireland website and check the expertise of a barrister. In my assessment, it is an obligation on the purchaser of the legal service, the person who is spending the money, to look around to see if he or she can get this cheaper. That is what we would do in any market. We look around. If we want to get a flight somewhere, we do not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Access to Justice and Legal Costs: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Dec 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: That is unfortunate but I believe there is an obligation on purchasers to realise that there are other persons who can do it and who need to be given a chance. The profession is full of young, talented people who do not get an opportunity. I have trained barristers and opportunity is the biggest determinant in terms of whether their career takes off. Some of them get it; some of them do not.

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