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Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: Sorry, I did not quite get the question. Can Deputy Duffy give it to me again?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: The sums of €600 million and €200 million are ballpark figures based on the Copenhagen estimate that it will increase our GDP by 0.2% between now and 2030. It is not possible to estimate the potential cost because then one has to start imagining cases that could be successful. One would have to imagine all cases of discrimination causing harm that could be successful that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: One of the Senator's points is very valid, which is more cases are being taken with respect to environmental and other regulations, not only by companies but also NGOs. However, people, NGOs and companies have the right to sue. The question is whether they are successful. The risk analysis is as I described it. We can write that up if the Senator wishes. Essentially, we are saying the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: They are very different issues and that is a little disingenuous. This will be a scenario whereby an investor is discriminated against and loses out. An NGO claiming losses on behalf of someone else or society in general is very different from a legal entity like a company or even an individual claiming that they incurred losses themselves. The Senator asked whether there was a risk of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: I am not sure what the process would be. Is there a risk? Of course there is. If the State or a government changes its regulation or rules mid-stream, can it be sued? Of course it can and it has been sued. The State is sued from time to time when it changes its rules or regulations mid-stream or mid-process but is that risk higher because of an ICS? I do not think so because the same...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: One point the Senator is missing is that it must be discriminatory. It is not a case of the State changing its rules or bringing in new public health restrictions or new environmental laws. The company would have to prove it had been specifically discriminated against.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: To be very clear, it is always open and should always be open to states to change their rules and regulations if they believe it is in the public interest to do so. I have been a member of three governments and have done that regularly. Notwithstanding that, a policy certainty is good for business. If a business is making a long-term investment, it wants to be aware of that, so any time we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: Often the value of detailed scrutiny of issues like this is that whenever everything gets teased out, we get to a point where we have a fundamental difference of opinion and we disagree. That is when we put it to a vote. My view is the best strategic position for Ireland to take is to be early adopters of international agreements to which we have signed up and that we believe to be in our...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: As I might have said before, the joint interpretive instrument was included specifically to set out the right to regulate in social and environmental areas. It is always the case that states and companies can end up in court. I believe I know the example the Deputy is thinking about. That has nothing to do with any international treaties but it is always the case that companies and states...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: I accept that the Deputy is an internationalist but there are different ways in which people define themselves when they use the term "internationalist". While I do not know about the Deputy, her party has certainly voted and campaigned against every single EU treaty, including the Single European Act, the Maastricht treaty, the Lisbon treaty and the fiscal treaty. To me, the European Union...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: There can always be bias, so the answer is "Yes".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: I thank the Deputy. I withdraw my "Yes" because I am not exactly sure what she means by “overconfidence bias” in this context. Of course people can always be biased. I can and everyone can, and anyone doing the analysis could also be biased.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: I do not know. I have not read the legal advice from the Attorney General on that matter. I have only read the memorandum brought to Cabinet by the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Eamon Ryan. The best thing to do is take it up with him. The issues around LNG and the Energy Charter Treaty are matters for him, as Minister. The Energy Charter Treaty, which...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: That may well be the case, but-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: It has also not been deemed unconstitutional but the Senator may be correct that it was never challenged. She may wish to challenge it but maybe it is too late.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: We did not try to do it. We would have been happy to have two days' debate at the time if that had been adequate for people. We agreed to this process. I am happy that we have debate and scrutiny of any issue like this but I do not think debate and scrutiny should be used to filibuster a decision being made. At a certain point, the Dáil has the right to have a vote and make a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: I always welcome the Senator's contributions. It has been a long time since we have debated legislation in the Seanad but I enjoyed it when we did. It is hard to keep up with the number of issues raised sometimes, so my apologies if I missed them. On this treaty being scrutinised, it was the Government that agreed that the treaty should receive more scrutiny. It was a proposal from the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: My advice is it is no easier or harder for SMEs. It is always more difficult for an SME to take a case than a big company, for obvious reasons. It is more difficult for an SME to engage in a legal challenge. This does not change that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: Not that I am aware of, but I can come back to the Senator on that. On climate goals, there is always a potential conflict between trade and climate. Trade, by its nature, means transporting things across seas and oceans. That can increase emissions but one has to look at these things in the round. There could be major advantages in terms of achieving our climate goals from increased...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement: Discussion with Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (26 May 2021)

Leo Varadkar: I thank the committee members for a very interesting engagement and discussion. At the outset of this process, when we said we would go to the committees and not have a vote in the Dáil, I predicted that it was likely that people would not change their minds. That is not necessarily a bad thing. It means that all the issues have been aired and at least we know the items on which we...

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