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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: Will Mr. Moloney then come back to the committee on this because it is ongoing in a number of cases to the point that it is becoming a waste of my time. I have failed to get a response on it. How many employees are in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: What does it cost to run the Department annually?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: Did the Department of Finance save €50 million when it was decided to split the Departments and create the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform? Was €50 million saved?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: Not to interrupt Mr. Moloney, but my focus is on whether the Department is value for money. I have read a huge amount in preparation for this committee meeting and many of my colleagues and I are of the opinion it is time to reintegrate the two Departments. The 650 employees at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform could probably be put to much better use. Mr. Moloney previously...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: What have the savings been?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: At a cost.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: How much are they?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: That is the target, over how many years?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: The Department has been established for ten years. A cost of €50 million per annum is €500 million. It has saved €500 million so there are no real savings, are there?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: That €500 million is annual. I was asking whether it was annual. If it is €500 million, can Mr. Moloney show me on paper where the savings are made? I ask him to submit documentation to the committee showing where all those savings were made in 2021.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: That is grand.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: Deputy O'Connor undoubtedly did not receive an answer to his question from Mr. Moloney.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: From the time that it was first intimated that there would be a ring road in Galway, the project has cost in excess of €20 million. It cost that much for plans and for everybody to have their say but we have nothing except that a defunct organisation called An Bord Pleanála overturned the decision. Last week, I made a speech in the Dáil about regulation and regulation has...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: It is interesting that the Secretary General said that the concerns "will be addressed". An Bord Pleanála has not been disbanded. Every project in the country has been held up whether it is private planning, infrastructural planning and national infrastructure projects. We cannot do anything.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: Oh, sacred heart.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: I will not curse but I am frustrated. I only seek an answer on what is the Department's function in advising on how we should deal with the wastage of each and every one of these regulators, State bodies or whatever one likes to call them. What is the Secretary General's function in advising the Government? Is there a point in time when he says enough is enough? The State Claims Agency...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: So the money goes into black holes and legal fees.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: What does the Secretary General mean by saying that? We did not have a planning regulator until 2018 and all that he has done since he was put in situis cause problems and we have no housing as a matter of fact.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: I still have not heard an answer to my question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Reallocation of Voted Funding
(20 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: No. What is the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform's function, in that it cost us €50 million a year to operate and the money that it may save has been stated to be €500 million a year but that has been whittled to just half? I could go on, because my speech only lasted three minutes. If I were to name every regulator then we would probably be looking at well in...

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