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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Again, was that part of your work?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: And finally, Chair, can you recall when was the first time that you might have been asked for the legal advice specifically relating to a blanket guarantee?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: So you were already in that place?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Thank you.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Thank you, Chair. What was your ... sorry, gentlemen, thank you. What was your advice to the Department on the actual legal position regarding the deposit guarantee scheme? Now, I appreciate you may not have had, so if ... that's fair enough. That was approved by Government on 20 September, which I appreciate was prior to your coming on-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: I'm sorry. But wasn't enacted until ... in legislation until next ... until the following year. So did you have any hand, act or part in that?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. So if we go back then to your appointment, were ... how did it come about that you were appointed on 24 September? Had you been forewarned, maybe earlier on in the month, that such a ... or was it an out-of-the-blue moment? And could you just tell us how that happened?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Right. And was that described to you then as an emergency or a crisis or what were the words that were used to explain how you'd got a call out of the blue?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: And, forgive me, well ... perhaps people don't understand ... maybe watching ... the public at large, but why the State would need to, if you like, employ outside lawyers to work, if you like, effectively with the Attorney General's office in order to produce legislation that, in fact, we're supposed to be able to do ourselves. So why was that that you were brought in at that point?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: I think you said that you weren't given a timeline ... you weren't told, I don't think, that "We need this by Friday," or "We need this by Monday." Am I correct? Did I understand that correctly?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: However, you have observed that it was clearly a very serious situation, so-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: -----what sort of sense did you have - and your team - about when you were meant to be delivering something, even if there wasn't a specific date given?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Just to be completely clear: in the end, if you hadn't come in, if you hadn't been called was there already in existence sufficient legislative capacity for either nationalisation or a guarantee?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: You say, I think perhaps it's Mr. McCague, you say you attended a meeting on Sunday, 28 September: in the offices of [the] NTMA with representatives of the Department of Finance, NTMA, the Financial Regulator's office ... other advisers. There was further discussion on the loan books of the banks, particularly of Anglo. Following that meeting, we continued to progress the draft Bill. So...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Given that several days, as in banking days, had passed between you being appointed and that meeting, was there any reflection on activity during those banking days that changed the situation? Made it worse, made it better, status quofor the actual banks, do you remember?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: The NTMA made clear to us in evidence that they were of the view that the model, so to speak, for Anglo and INBS was broken, it was a broken model that they were functioning under and that effectively they were insolvent. Did they make that view known to you, not necessarily in the succinct way they've done it here, but in the conversations were they making that clear? Because obviously you...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay, so as monoline lenders with broken models, so to speak, were you in a position where you had to satisfy yourselves as lawyers with offering legal advice that the banks were all solvent? Did you have to stand back yourselves and go, okay these banks are solvent or they're not solvent, or were you just able to rely on, as it turned out, the Central Bank and the Financial Regulator's...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: But you'd heard the NTMA tell you that the models were broken and that they were in a bad state. And now you heard the Central Bank telling you they were solvent so were you, in your own mind going, okay I have to make a judgment call here or would it have made any difference to your advice?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: No, but I'm asking ... I'm sorry maybe I'm misplacing the question-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: As lawyers offering legal advice on the legislation, did you have to satisfy yourselves that banks that you were offering advice about were solvent, or not?

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