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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Ultimately ISIF would have to decide if it meets the obligations that are contained within the legislation. It can be provided for that SMEs up to a certain size could be exempted from the responsibilities under it. It depends on where one sets that size. It has to be set at a level that continues to maintain the impact of the Bill and its intent. That would have to be considered in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: It could present difficulties but we are presuming the ISIF would be the only source of funding available to a company in that position. It is something that has to be taken into account in the future in the transition from fossil fuels and the movement away from their use. Depending on the size of the SME, they might come in under the exemptions that could be included in the Bill. It...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Yes. I have a couple of questions. Regarding the cluster munitions Act, Mr. Bristow stated ISIF identified 19 companies in which it will not invest. He said there was some discussion about whether aircraft companies should be included. I presume that is a company like Boeing, which might make a bomber aircraft that will actually drop the bombs. ISIF has not excluded Boeing as an...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Does Mr. Bristow think it comes into the grey area?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: There is a difference between Boeing and-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Does ISIF exclude software developers in terms of software that may be used in their manufacture?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Ms Joyce would not exclude Boeing, which manufactures aircraft?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: I am not citing it in particular. I am saying that an aircraft manufacturer that makes commercial aircraft may also make military aircraft, which could be used in the delivery of cluster bombs. It is not excluded.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Are aircraft specifically excluded?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: The guidance mechanisms.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Somebody who delivers home heating oil is not covered by the intent of this Bill. They would be within the grey area.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Ms Joyce cited them as a potential exclusion in her contribution.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Ms Joyce does not exclude from her investments the aircraft that drop the cluster bombs.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Mr. Bristow said that ISIF invests indirectly through Ireland in terms of the fund. I cannot recall the name of the fund but it is administered by one of the banks. Does Mr. Bristow know how many small and medium enterprises, SMEs, would be funded that he would perceive as being fossil fuel companies as defined by this Bill?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: I have a final question. Mr. Bristow said that the Bill as currently worded could be interpreted as limiting ISIF's ability to invest in a wide range of sectors including SMEs, ICT and health care, and infrastructure. Could Mr. Bristow give examples of how ICT and health care could be excluded from that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: What Ms Joyce is saying is that a hospital that has a back-up generator is actually processing fossil fuels by the action of turning it on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: That would be-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: The definition of a fossil fuel company does not state "consumes fossil fuels".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Is the witness saying that someone with a data storage facility would or could be excluded on the basis of the fact that they have a connection to the electricity grid? That would be as per the interpretation of the definition of fossil fuel companies in this Bill.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Thomas Pringle: Okay.

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