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Leaders' Questions (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: It was not a rhetorical flourish. It is a statement of reality and is shocking.

Order of Business (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: It is not agreed. I presume it is deliberate that we are being afforded so little time to debate the budget. Next week, as we know, will be taken up with the social welfare Bill. We have had some debate on the expert report and while I fully appreciate that more consideration is necessary, at a minimum we need to change the order for Monday to allow Members of the Dáil to have a full...

Order of Business (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Why?

Order of Business (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: A Cheann Comhairle-----

Order of Business (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am asking for your guidance on this matter. It is not to facilitate me, but to facilitate the Members of the Dáil. This is a democratic forum and it is a budget. Why can the business not be reordered? Can you give us clarity on that?

Order of Business (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: We have a member of the Government sitting opposite.

Report of the Expert Group on the Judgment in the A, B and C v. Ireland Case: Statements (Resumed) (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am conscious that after a 20 year delay, we have had a flurry of debates on this matter in the Dáil over the past number of weeks. The extent of the debate serves to highlight the extent of the delay which ran to two decades and the disrepute in which it places this Oireachtas. Many speakers have spoken about the sensitivity on the issue of abortion and I would not disagree with...

Report of the Expert Group on the Judgment in the A, B and C v. Ireland Case: Statements (Resumed) (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I do not believe so.

Report of the Expert Group on the Judgment in the A, B and C v. Ireland Case: Statements (Resumed) (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I accept that and I do not presume to pre-empt anything. I am simply putting on the record the position of my party, which is that we require legislation for this matter and Deputy Mathews is familiar with this, and also my sense of where the debate is at and my reading of the report.

Report of the Expert Group on the Judgment in the A, B and C v. Ireland Case: Statements (Resumed) (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: On several occasions attempts were made to overturn the decision in the X case, both of which failed. We can all analyse why this happened but the people spoke. It is now abundantly clear that we need to act and to legislate. We need primary legislation and we will also require regulation. Savita Halappanavar has, not surprisingly, been mentioned in the Chamber. The distressing element...

Report of the Expert Group on the Judgment in the A, B and C v. Ireland Case: Statements (Resumed) (6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Hear, hear.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I apologise for arriving late to the meeting. Let me deal with the PPPs. Most people work on the assumption that PPPs involve a quid pro quo, in other words, that there is private provision of capital for infrastructure and that, in return, the State gains. It is worth saying at this meeting that this is not the case with water infrastructure, which is the subject I want to explore....

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Let us just reverse a little. I take it from Ms Geraldine Tallon that expertise, capacity and skill do not exist in the public system.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: While I appreciate that, I would have thought there would be as much certainty about capital costs and maintenance in the public system as in the private system. I believed that the deciding factor between standard procurement and the PPP model was value for money. In other words, I believed it was more cost-effective to operate through a PPP.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I have that and I thank Ms Tallon. In its value for money model, does the Department calculate revenue forgone? For example, Veolia obviously is not doing this for the good of its health. It becomes involved in such a contract because it is a generator of revenue, which is absolutely legitimate from its perspective. Does the Department factor in the aforementioned revenue forgone to the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Accepting that-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: While that is very interesting, it does not answer my question. I will attempt to rephrase it. Commercial private entities will enter into such schemes, legitimately from their perspective, not from the joy of building new infrastructure, but because that infrastructure in commercial terms represents a revenue generator for them. Other than that, they do not do so from the joy of providing...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: How many plants does Veolia operate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: While I do not wish to zone in on that particular company, let us use it as an example. It operates eight or nine plants.

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