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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Does that mean that all the stuff we have been talking about today and all the references people have made to losses in the industry only reflects 60% of the total trade in the jurisdiction?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: What about AIG? There is a flaw there and perhaps it is our fault. It was on my list of questions from the start to ask what is in this table. The Central Bank supervises the companies and not the losses. Does the table of insurance industry losses that we are talking about only represent about 60% of the total jurisdiction?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Is it potentially the case that those companies, which we do not have any visibility on through the Central Bank figures, could be making lots of money? Do we do know they are not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: It can charge logo fees and head office costs anyway it likes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: If the business is producing profits better than the average, it can charge logo fees, head office fees, marketing charges and whatever and then come out with a certain figure. It is not normal practice but it is common practice. We do not see the figures. The Central Bank does not see the figures anyway.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: The committee has met for five and a half days before now with everyone telling us the industry is losing a fortune-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: -----but we do not have visibility on a big chunk of that market. We do not have any visibility on the trend in claims or the 70% of claims that are being settled either pre or post Injuries Board. Does the Central Bank have any visibility on those figures?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: What about the trend in the 70% of claims? We were told by the Injuries Board that its claims have been fairly static over a number of years. Court claims have been relatively static over a number of years. Premiums are going up by 70% in line with alleged requirements. We are trying to work out what has changed. Whiplash settlements are higher here than anywhere else and legal fees are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: That is possibly some of the most interesting and concise information we have had in the past six days that the committee met. It brings into focus that they are the reasons or a chunk of the reason-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: They are part of the reason. Some of the reasons are the historic cost being allegedly too low or companies going out of business for whatever reason - bad practices, not insuring the right risk, not managing their business properly, charging too little and paying out too much relative to what they were charging. The Central Bank has put in place these new changes and it is effectively, as...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I do not mean it in an overly loaded way. The Central Bank is saying that in order for the industry to be sustainable, it must take into account more expensive claims, greater volume of claims, greater traffic on the road, whatever it is, and in order for the industry to have enough reserves, it has to charge more.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: We were told 92% of premium payers were not making claims, while 8% to 10% were making claims. We are not saying people who should not be entitled to get a claim should get a claim. Is there any hope for the 92% of people who pay in more and more while their car is getting older, they are getting older and they are probably getting better at driving over time? Is there any hope there will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Are we entitled to find out the particular banks about which Dr. Roux has concerns?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I thought Dr. Roux might say that. As a committee, we would be quite interested in talking to those banks. If we do not know which ones are involved, however, we will not be in a position to talk to them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: It will have to be a short answer.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I am conscious that the committee did not ask Dr. Roux about these points. Is Dr. Roux concerned that because it is a percentage of a total amount and if that is relaxed to 10% the house price will go up in an inverse relationship to the extent that, instead of a person having to find 20% of €400,000, he or she has to find 10% of €800,000 or €80,000 either way? There...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Costs of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I thank the witnesses for participating in the meeting and all our committee members who participated in it as well, and for the material the witnesses supplied in advance of the meeting. That concludes public hearings on the rising cost of motor insurance. The secretariat will produce a report with recommendations for committee consideration. The committee is adjourned until 10 a.m....

Seanad: Order of Business (11 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Perhaps.

Seanad: Budget 2017: Statements (11 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I thank the Minister of State for engaging with us today. He is probably the Minister who is here most often, dealing with both finance and public expenditure matters. Fianna Fáil is committed to facilitating a budget that invests in public services and targets tax reductions on low-income and middle-income earners. We are providing real leadership to create a stable and fair...

Seanad: Budget 2017: Statements (11 Oct 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Is Senator Craughwell feeling left out?

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