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Public Accounts Committee: Oversight and Implementation of Capital Projects and the Role of Public Officials on State Boards: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Office of Government Procurement (7 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: I thank Mr. Watt for the clarification. It has been stated on many occasions that this individual had no responsibility to report what was developing to Mr. Watt, as his boss, or the Government. Will Mr. Watt comment on that point?

Public Accounts Committee: Oversight and Implementation of Capital Projects and the Role of Public Officials on State Boards: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Office of Government Procurement (7 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: There is no question of Mr. Watt having bumped into the official in the Department and it being mentioned over a cup of coffee, or some such development?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Business of Joint Committee (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: Apologies have been received from Deputy Tom Neville. I propose we now go into private session to deal with some housekeeping matters. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: We are back in public session. I welcome members and viewers who may be watching our proceedings on Oireachtas TV to the public session of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Children and Youth Affairs. The purpose of today's meeting is to have a discussion with representatives of Tusla of governance and child safeguarding issues in Scouting Ireland and in the second session to meet...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: It has been circulated. It would be helpful if Mr. Smyth could go through it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: I thank Mr. Smyth and appreciate the detail in his opening statement. His concluding remarks prompted a question that is pertinent to our overall discussion. They reflect a remark made to me by the public and by a journalist. There are two parts. Was it ever Tusla's intention that the letter written by the Children First information and advice officer, CFIAO, would enter the public...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: It was useful to put that on the record from the outset. I invite Senator Noone to commence.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: There are two remaining speakers, myself and Senator Warfield. From my perspective, the clarifications and commentary provided by the witnesses today have been very helpful in terms of enabling us to tease out what both organisations need to be doing. Obviously, the emphasis is on Scouting Ireland but I have a few queries relating to the points raised in the letter from Tusla to Scouting...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: Was it a specific incident?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: Tusla was satisfied with the service that was being provided. That was implied, regardless of any utterances it may have made. The fact that it closed down its own helpline was a tacit acceptance that what Scouting Ireland was doing was acceptable to Tusla, as the child and family agency. We must make it clear that Tusla received a complaint from a member of the public. I presume that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: I accept that and thank Mr. Smyth for his response. Recommendation No. 4 relates to the child safeguarding statement. Scouting Ireland has said publicly that it was compliant with the requirement for such a statement and that Tusla had told the organisation that it was compliant. However, the document before us today infers that Scouting Ireland was not compliant. Mr. Smyth has said that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: I thank Mr. Gibson for that reply. Scouting Ireland will be appearing before the committee later this morning. There will be an opportunity for the organisation to go through this and to put its position on the public record. We are questioning Tusla now. We are dealing with public perception, as a result of statements that were made in the public domain. As an organisation, Scouting...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: Leaving that matter aside, we are dealing with facts.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: I am sorry, Deputy-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: Go on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: I will ask about the child safeguarding statement and the application of child safeguarding procedures across the organisation. Most of us are confident about the ability of individual units of the organisation to be compliant, insofar as is possible, with child safeguarding procedures to ensure children are not put at risk. How would Tusla recommend that Scouting Ireland, as a movement...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: Of course, as Mr. Lee has outlined.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: I repeat what Mr. Gibson said about the interactions between Scouting Ireland and Tusla and attempts to improve the voluntary organisation. He has said that we are in a good place and there is evidence that, given Tusla's engagement with Scouting Ireland in the past couple of weeks, that is accurate. We await what Scouting Ireland has to state. Are there implications for other...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: My final question before I hand over to Senator Warfield is related to what Tusla has learned from the events of the past two weeks and specifically for Ms Creamer. Does she think it has had a chilling effect on how Tusla will approach any other organisation about which it has concerns in the light of the fact that any document or utterance from it may become public? Has it affected how it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Governance and Child Safeguarding Issues in Scouting Ireland: Tusla and Scouting Ireland (13 Mar 2019)

Alan Farrell: Let me encapsulate the matter in an important sense. Does it serve the children of Ireland to put something into the public domain to let people make up their own minds, or is it better for Tusla to deal with the organisation with which it is engaged in a constructive and proactive way without unnecessary noise?

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