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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Thank you, Chair. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I've only ten minutes so, thank you. I noticed the questioning times had changed a little and I'd ask you to be as brief as you can maybe in response. All of my references are to core document C3b and I want to start on page 40 which is the last page of that where there are several references to Bank ... several references on that page, the end...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Mr. Burrows, there's a difference between not talking about it and actually saying publicly that you weren't looking for it ... not talking for it ... or not talking about it is quite a different position.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Roughly speaking, do you, would you------

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Before the end of 2008?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I want to put the following quote to you. Almost a full month after the previous references that I've given, on 19 November 2008, Mr. Cowen, in the Dáil, it's on the Dáil record, stated that he expected covered institutions to explore the potential for meeting these capital needs through "raising private capital and the disposal of appropriate assets". He gave no mention of the...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Those are all mentioned in those minutes that I've referenced earlier-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: -----but also State capital injection is specifically referenced in them too.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. Can I turn now to your discussions on the 28th with Mr. Hurley in relation to the impending situation with regard to Anglo and you said ... you expressed surprise that he didn't seem to be aware fully of what ... of the €1.5 billion liability that was going to fall due. Did you ... can you elaborate on the discussions that you had with him? Did you express that surprise to him-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: -----that he should have been aware, or have you any other information for the inquiry?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Why didn't you express surprise to him?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: But why didn't you express your surprise to him?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Do you-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. I want to turn to page 5 of the same document now; I'll give it a moment for it to come up on the screen. It's paragraph one, two, three, four, five, the bottom of it, where there is a direct quotation, page 5 of C3b. I'll put the quotation to you anyway. It said that "No indication of Anglo's specific needs was given [this is a court minute again] except that it was due to repay...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: That's fair enough. I want to refer, Deputy McGrath spoke about the night of the guarantee and Mr. Goggin having proffered the view here ... I think the quote or the phrase that he used when he made the suggestion about subordinated, certain dated subordinated debt, was that there was a potential overlap with senior debt and potentially with sovereign. How was it possible that your chief...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay, no, I won't go further into that. My final question is again in relation to the evidence given by Mr. Goggin to the inquiry. In answer to a question from me, he said:You'll recall that when I was describing the events of 29 September, a few days earlier than this, the governor of the Bank of Ireland [yourself] met with the Governor of the Central Bank to assist me in my unsuccessful...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: You don't have any more detail as to what he-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: -----what he was saying about the changes or looking for changes to collateral rules?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay, thank you.

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