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Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: A tremendous amount of provision has been put in place in the past ten or 12 years for special needs and resource teachers. The change does not even affect every part of the country. In my constituency of Tipperary South, no school was affected by that decision. Something that does not even affect every constituency in the country legitimately deserves the description I attached to it. The...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I absolutely reject the proposition that the Government is compromised in that or any other sense. The provisions that have been adopted are those judged to be in the best long-term interest of the people of this country.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: To make a general point, the Minister or Minister of State will accept an amendment if it makes sense. They will not do so merely out of respect for this House or the Other House. The amendments have been carefully considered and the Minister appreciates the thinking that lies behind them in relation to the oversight of the expenditure of public moneys. It is important to bear in mind that...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I am sorry; how much will what be?

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: An exact figure was given in my speech.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: It is €1.584 billion — in effect, €1.6 billion. There is no provision in the Bill or indeed the principal Act for a suspension of this contribution. The Senator is correct in saying the contribution is effectively being borrowed. Those were the main issues raised.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The fund, in the short term, is being used for recapitalisation, so we do need the money, and therefore we will have to borrow it and we cannot save the interest on it. When the Senator says the fund has been diverted from its purpose, or words to that effect, given that this fund was never intended to be used until 2025, he is talking about a temporary use of it for emergency purposes....

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: What I am saying is that there is no provision in this Bill or, a fortiori, in the principal Act for suspending payments into the fund. The payments into the fund will be needed in any case over the next year or two, perhaps more——

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: ——for the recapitalisation process.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: As of 31 December 2008, yes.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The Government, in this Bill, has not changed its policy with regard to annual payments into the NPRF. In broad principle I do not think it is a good idea to suspend payments. If we suspend them, when will we ever re-establish them? There is a pensions problem down the line; we have seen that with regard to public sector pensions. I do not think we should consider the virtual suspension...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: Of course we are.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I do not think I can be accused of defending the National Pensions Reserve Fund with insufficient vigour. I refute the notion that it is a sacred cow.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: As Senator Harris noted, it was a prudential decision. I hate to think of the circumstances we would face today if we did not have the fund, given the banking crisis that has come on top of the budgetary and employment crises.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: It has been our saving grace. It is not the Government's intention to begin using the fund for various purposes. A specific emergency has arisen and acting on it is not inconsistent with the fund's long-term purpose after 2025. It is being made available solely for the purpose of recapitalisation. The annual 1% contribution is a substantial charge on the Exchequer by any standard. The...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I think Senator Ross is wrong. A more pragmatic point is that because the annual contribution to the fund is not reckoned in the calculation of the general Exchequer balance, it does not impact on Government expenditure. High borrowing costs are a temporary phenomenon and if we succeed, as I hope we shall, in getting the financial situation under control, any additional borrowing costs will...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: My Cork grandmother would certainly have approved of the motto, "Never explain, never apologise".

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: It is fair to say that both parts of this amendment reflect a concern, which we all share, to improve the flow of credit in the economy. Under the Credit Institutions Financial Support Act 2008, the Minister for Finance can provide financial support only where, after consultation with the Central Bank and the Regulatory Authority, he or she is of the opinion that there is a serious threat to...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I have set out already what recapitalisation involves. Senator Burke referred to Anglo Irish Bank as our bank. Anglo Irish Bank is a semi-State bank which is run at arm's length on a commercial basis. It is not an instrument of Government that operates according to different rules from other banks. Anglo Irish Bank will bring before Government a business plan outlining its proposals on...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: Like the Minister for Finance, I respect the decisions of this House and the other House. Section 27 of the National Pensions Reserve Fund Act 2000 requires the National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission to submit an annual report to the Minister for Finance "as soon as may be, but not later than 6 months, after the end of each financial year". The Minister is then required to "cause copies...

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