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Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Legislative Framework Underpinning the State's Response (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I accept what Mr. Murphy said about ignorance of the law being no defence, but would he accept the point made by both speakers in the previous session, Dr. Buquicchio and Lord Sumption, that one cannot seek to prosecute legally for breach of a regulation unless and until that regulation has been published and is accessible to those whom it seeks to regulate?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Legislative Framework Underpinning the State's Response (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: The point Mr. Murphy is making is that the law has to be accessible.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Legislative Framework Underpinning the State's Response (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I thank Mr. Murphy, Dr. Kenny, Ms O'Boyle, Ms McNally and Mr. O'Sullivan for joining us today and I apologise for the slightly later than anticipated start to the session.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I welcome representatives from the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, Free Legal Advice Centres, FLAC, and the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, ICCL, who are here to discuss human rights and civil liberty considerations. From the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, I welcome Ms Sinéad Gibney, chief commissioner, and Ms Sunniva McDonagh, member of the commission. From...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I thank Ms Gibney. On behalf of my colleagues I thank Ms Gibney for her kind words. I invite Ms Barry to make her opening statement. I remind witnesses that their contributions have been circulated in advance, so I ask that they limit themselves to five minutes, please.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I thank Ms Barry for her statement and for the very detailed information which has been provided. It will be considered in full by the committee in advance of making final recommendations and making our final report. I invite Ms Ansbro to make the opening statement on behalf of the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, ICCL, and to confine herself to five minutes if possible.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I thank Ms Ansbro and call Deputy O'Reilly, who has ten minutes.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: The Deputy always does, in fairness.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I have a brief follow up question for Mr. Herrick. He said the fact that people booked flights, although did not travel, was a basis on which their payments were cancelled gives rise to other concerns. I presume he means data breaches, in that that their bookings somehow came to the attention of social welfare authorities.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: The next speaker is from Fine Gael. Is Deputy Durkan taking five or ten minutes?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: That is a lot of questions.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: Who wishes to answer?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I thank Ms Ansbro. Before I bring in Deputy McAuliffe, I would like to make the point that whatever difficulty there has been, and there have been many for people who are looking to protest and for those looking to advise them, there is a commensurate difficulty for those seeking to police the protests. I am very conscious that we have not heard from any Garda representative bodies. We may...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I thank Ms McDonagh.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I thank the witness and Deputy McAuliffe. I now call on the next speaker from the Green Party, Deputy Steven Matthews.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: The next speaker is Deputy Duncan Smith from the Labour Party.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I would like to ask a couple of questions about rights and how they were vindicated or otherwise during the pandemic. How did the Irish Prison Service do? What happened to prisoners and what was done to facilitate visits? I saw an announcement on social media stating that the Irish Prison Service had managed to reopen and re-establish family visits relatively early. What happened with...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: My next question concerns testing in direct provision centres. The EU reception conditions directive allows for health screening etc., but it is silent on what happens if someone does not co-operate. There is a duty on the State to provide accommodation under the directive. What happens if someone does not want to be tested regularly and argues that he or she is at a heightened risk of...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: I am aware that all the organisations are human rights bodies and may not be so concerned with civil litigation. I am wondering if they have any concerns about the effect of section 43 of the Health Act which, if a regulation is not adhered to, reverses the burden of proof if somebody contracts Covid-19. It only does so where the plaintiff was not aware of the breach of the regulation....

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Covid-19: Human Rights and Civil Liberty Considerations (9 Sep 2020)

Michael McNamara: On the introduction of regulations, the first session this morning included a former judge of the UK Supreme Court, Lord Sumption, and the president of the Venice Commission of the Council of Europe, Dr. Gianni Buquicchio, both of whom agreed as a matter of rule of law that it would not be possible to enforce a regulation before it was published. There was a considerable delay even when a...

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