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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: One of the key learnings of the Scottish model - this goes back to a point Deputy Stanton made - relates to the key role information and education play. What the Scottish Government discovered was that it was lovely to have the idea of growing the co-operative movements, but the reality was that even the professional services involved in supporting businesses did not understand how...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: It is a distinctive model and that is why it deserves a distinctive unit. I want to quote from the head of the relevant Scottish organisation. He said: We have a choice: to be passive and allow the development of a supportive environment for [worker co-op] companies to happen without industry input, or to take a proactive approach and seek to actively influence how that environment...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: I imagine the committee will have a report to feed into this. I hope that colleagues across parties will see the fact that best practice dictates that we do need such a unit. We will probably agree to disagree on that at this point. I want to ask about an asset lock. One of the things that has been crucial to the development of successful co-operatives is making sure that they are not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: I mean this respectfully, but all I would say is that to me it points to a lack of ambition in getting the proposed legislation right after 100 years. As asset lock is absolutely essential if we are serious about developing a co-operative sector. Otherwise, what happens over time, as in any capitalist society, is that co-ops tend to change their status. We have seen that in our own country,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: I am out of time, but want to make a final point. If you look at best practice and at the countries, like Italy, where co-operatives really thrive, you will see that thrive because of the legislative supports that are in place. It would seem to be a missed opportunity if we do not use the proposed Bill to put similar legislative supports in place in respect of issues like succession and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: I agree, but let us maximise the possibilities while we are doing this. There are key best practices in France, Italy, and, in particular, Scotland. Scotland's economy very much mirrors our economy in many respects. In the heads of the Bill as they currently stand, we do not seem to be taking advantage of those best practices. Setting up a co-operative development unit is the most...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: I thank the witnesses for their patience. I am interested in this topic. I wish to tease it out a little more because the Department has ruled out for the moment the idea of setting up a dedicated CDU. Once this legislation is passed, where will the supports be in place to help people to set up co-operatives? If I live in Limerick, which I do, where in Limerick will I go to talk about how...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: Where? Through whom?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: To be clear, Enterprise Ireland deals with companies that are going to export. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: Most co-ops that are start-ups will not be involved in exporting. Many of them, in my experience, are much services sector-oriented. That rules out Enterprise Ireland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: I am aware of that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: With respect, what I am getting from the Department at the moment is that after this legislation is passed, it will be easier to have this as an option, and that is true. What I want, however, is a plan to actively promote co-operatives, and I am not hearing that. I am flabbergasted if the Department has looked at best practice, which was my opening question, and the Scottish example in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: Those areas would be the traditional co-operative areas, particularly agriculture, which is where they are doing well, but Mr. Shine and I both agree that we need to do much more outside of agriculture. Yes, the Department has accounted for those people, but the people crying out for a CDU will be bitterly disappointed that it is not part of this legislation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: Again, that is where we disagree with each other, respectfully. The best practice from Scotland shows there will only be significant growth in co-operatives when there is a dedicated department or unit promoting them. Otherwise one is being Jesuitical about it, telling people they can go this route for companies or this route for co-operatives and it is up to them. Successful models in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: I agree.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: General Scheme of the Co-operative Societies Bill 2022: Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (14 Dec 2022)

Paul Gavan: They are crying out for a CDU. I have spoken to them. They say they need to see a unit re-established.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health (Termination of Pregnancy Services (Safe Access Zones)) Bill 2022: Department of Health (Resumed) (18 Jan 2023)

Paul Gavan: So far, what I have seen relates to the warnings and interaction with the warnings. The witness briefly referenced the industrial relations issue; delineation of the zone; and Garda powers in relation to search and seizure. Is there anything else?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health (Termination of Pregnancy Services (Safe Access Zones)) Bill 2022: Department of Health (Resumed) (18 Jan 2023)

Paul Gavan: I will ask a different question. Is the committee in a position to finalise a report after this meeting to help our colleagues progress this?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health (Termination of Pregnancy Services (Safe Access Zones)) Bill 2022: Department of Health (Resumed) (18 Jan 2023)

Paul Gavan: I think the work of the the Chair and the committee has been really crucial in clarifying many matters. I share the Chair's concern though about so many issues that still seem to be under active consideration. Ms Mason is correct. This is priority legislation. Unfortunately, it has been priority legislation since the beginning of this Government. I do not want to get into a back and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health (Termination of Pregnancy Services (Safe Access Zones)) Bill 2022: Department of Health (Resumed) (18 Jan 2023)

Paul Gavan: One last comment and I will finish. I thank the Chair for his indulgence. To reiterate the points that were made by others here, I think the idea of any kind of requirement that a file be sent to the DPP would be enormously damaging to this Bill. I am sure the witnesses got that message already from the committee.

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