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Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: I accept where the Senator is coming from in respect of his well-known views on pacifism and morality. It is hard to argue against the points he made. He stated these devices are lousy, nasty and evil and all weapons that have the capability of killing or maiming people are lousy and nasty. However, one must remember that this Bill deals with the specific subject of cluster munitions,...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: If we introduce an obligation on citizens and Defence Forces working abroad, no matter how noble or worthy that obligation is, they would be placed in an invidious position if it differs from the obligations of other countries, albeit obligations to which we agreed at the convention. Under the Senator's amendment, citizens could be committing criminal acts by virtue of taking part in...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: To answer Senator Norris's direct question and while he and I disagree, it is my understanding that Austria and Belgium will be unable to ratify the treaty next week because their legislation is inconsistent with it and must be amended.

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: This is the advice available to me and I give it to the Senator in good faith.

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: The Senator and I have different approaches. He is adopting a principled stand to the issue and, in principle, it is difficult to argue against the adoption of the highest standards in the world, but it is very difficult to argue for it when, a few short months ago at an international diplomatic conference held in this city, we agreed to adopt a consistent approach with dozens of other...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: Just about. Without discussing interoperability, the real issue is the operation of the convention on the ground. Were we to accept the amendments, that operation would be difficult at best, impossible at worst, and would prevent Ireland from participating in operations.

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: I again make the point that if one is coming from the perspective that all weapons are immoral and should be banned or outlawed, not just here but in every other country, it would be impossible to argue with one's logic. Senator Norris encapsulated the matter when he stated that this is a partial rather than a full ban. What all three Senators asked was why we should not simply impose a...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: That is why it comes down to defining what does or does not constitute a cluster bomb. I thank Senator Norris for tabling the amendment. However, I must state that the definition of what constitutes a cluster munition was one of the most difficult issues to be resolved during the negotiations that took place in Croke Park. The guiding principle behind those negotiations was to reach...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: That is what it is.

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: Yes.

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: Yes.

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: I am sorry to interrupt Senator Norris, but I was stating that he made the point that it was a partial ban.

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: I said that I had to respectfully disagree with it.

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: I will not pretend that the definition of what constitutes a cluster munition as a weapon was an easy part of the negotiations; it was not. It was the most intractable part of the negotiations. Ultimately, in seeking to outlaw cluster munitions one must work with some form of words which include and exclude certain items. If one accepts that the convention does not seek to outlaw all...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: I do not believe anyone would disagree with Senator Norris's command of the English language, which is widely respected throughout the House. Major difficulties arose in terms of definition and the use of language in this regard and while it offends someone who comes from a universally pacifist role, the methodology used must, by definition, offend someone who holds the view that no...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: I agree with that, but in terms of all international treaties and conventions, we must bring countries with us, so to speak. Ideally, the standard would be to ban various weapons, but it comes back to the matter of what does or does not constitute a cluster munition. I accept and agree with all Members that this is a starting point and that at all international fora we will encourage all...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: As the Senator will be aware, this amendment was also considered in detail in conjunction with amendment No. 7, which is closely related. The cumulative effect of this amendment and amendment No. 7 is, effectively, to prevent the participation of Irish Defence Forces in peacekeeping operations with countries that may not be parties to the convention on cluster munitions. These amendments...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: Many speakers used the expression "an ideal world". One only wishes we lived in one, but we do not. In the situations in which we are involved, especially on peacekeeping missions, that is far removed from the ideal world. We are not dealing with normal situations here but what we are doing by passing the legislation today, by subscribing to the convention and by playing a leadership role...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: Section 6 creates certain criminal offences in respect of cluster munitions and explosive bomblets in accordance with the obligations the State will assume under the convention. Section 9 creates similar offences regarding anti-personnel mines. Both provisions extend the jurisdiction of the State regarding these offences beyond the territory of the State to acts committed on board...

Seanad: Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Bill 2008: Committee and Remaining Stages (27 Nov 2008)

Peter Power: I appreciate the Seanad taking all Stages of the Bill quickly and efficiently, as this will enable the Government to ratify the convention in Oslo on 3 December when it will be signed on behalf of Ireland by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin. It is the Government's intention to arrange for commencement of Parts 1, 3, 4 and 5 immediately the Bill is signed by the...

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