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Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: There is no point in prolonging the debate because the Minister will not accept the recommendation. Is he committed to completing this measure within the period of Sustaining Progress? Does he accept the principle that we should not take money from people who earn less than the minimum wage?

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: Will it be done over the period of Sustaining Progress?

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: Not necessarily.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: It is a wish list.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: It is a bit difficult in the context of swiping €635 million out of the fund.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: It is commonly accepted that there are two elements in the social insurance fund: the social solidarity principle and the contributory principle. Both are equally valid. I am willing to accept what the Minister has said at face value, but it is difficult to marry it with the notion that as soon as the fund gets into surplus he takes some out to balance his budget elsewhere, which is precisely...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: I could not find a way of doing it without losers which is the reason it did not get into our election manifesto. Nonetheless the principle holds good and at this stage it is something that needs to be done. The system is ludicrous given the various exemptions, thresholds, levies and different rates of contributions and so on, and at a time when the Minister might actively consider doing it,...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: I move recommendation No. 4: 4. In page 13, before section 1, to insert the following new section: 1.–In respect of the year of assessment 2003 and subsequent years of assessment, section 461 of the Principal Act is amended by substituting '€3,040' for '€4,000'.".

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: I always felt it was a great deal for the taxpayer but a bad one for the Exchequer.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: I agree, but that may save time later. It is inevitable that there will be some drift on the first section of the Finance Bill. With respect, it was the Minister who helped us along that road. I do now want to go over old history, but I will quickly refer to SSIAs. It goes without saying that if one cannot afford €256 per month, one cannot take full advantage of the scheme. Those who could...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: Did the Minister mention the price of cattle?

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: I take it that the Minister is opposed to the CAP.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: The Minister's effort to cajole the farmers to come back in through the doors of Government Buildings to complete Sustaining Progress is impressive. I am sure the fact that he does not favour any form of price control or regulation will be a great consolation to farmers.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: I move recommendation No. 5: In page 13, before section 1, to insert the following new section: 1.–In respect of the year of assessment 2003 and subsequent years of assessment, section 466 of the Principal Act is amended by substituting '€100' for '€60'.".

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: Blind people.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: I do not intend to pursue this recommendation. It will be of interest to some people that the Minister has restated his intention to remove the little support that is given through the tax system to blind people and those with dependent sick relatives.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: It was a helpful clarification; the Minister is always frank in relation to these matters.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: Is it not one of the allowances the Minister wants to abolish?

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: Senator Mansergh has somewhat, but not entirely, misrepresented my position. There is an argument for indexation and for saying that, in any given year, allowances and credits should increase in line with the CPI for the previous year. That is not to say that I would necessarily have favoured index-linking the reliefs, allowances and credits to the CPI this year. I can see why the Minister...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Derek McDowell: I was going to let it pass but as the Minister has come back in I will take the opportunity to respond to one or two of the points he made during his exposition. A couple of years ago there was something resembling a consensus, perhaps not well-worked out but a consensus nonetheless, on what where the primary drivers of our economic growth and boom. It was traditional at that stage to list...

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