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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Correct.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Has this been determined by the UN?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Fair enough.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is that a UN or EUROSTAT rule?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I would like to concentrate on a CSO paper, Fossil Fuel and Similar Subsidies 2012-2016, for a couple of minutes before we finish up. This is one of the reasons I wanted to talk here. The Revenue Commissioners have given us some information about the collection of carbon taxes. The last figure I saw was for 2018. When officials from Revenue come in, we will ask them for an update. I...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. Brady saying we are being incentivised to use more diesel?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Who said that petrol was the benchmark? Was that decision made by EUROSTAT or by the UN? Is it an Irish benchmark?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: What is involved in the category of agriculture and food supports, which came to €1.49 billion in 2016?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Right.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I would like to come back to the paragraph from the CSO report that I read a few moments ago. It appears somewhat perverse from a climate change perspective that we are incentivising the use of diesel, which is more harmful to the environment. We know that for other policy reasons, fuel allowance is given to people to help them to heat their houses during the winter. Much of that is spent...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Does any country have a policy whereby the subsidies given do not prove damaging to the environment? Is there any country at which we can look in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, we have some of them.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: What is the balance in Ireland at a macro level in terms of buildings, what is used and environmentally positive measures? I refer to making it cheaper to buy diesel, for example, which is more damaging, raising money, understandably, for other social and economic reasons. I wish to look at the issue solely from the point of view of the environment in order that we look at where some of the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Brady is saying we are spending more on subsidies that have a negative impact on the environment in terms of climate change. That seems to be what he is saying.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: One of the reasons we are here is to put this issue into the public domain. I do not know who is watching the meeting at this hour of the evening, but they might pick up on it. When I saw the CSO's figure, I was taken aback, but when I looked at it, I understood it. We are collecting all of this revenue from the carbon tax and there is little transparency as to how the extra amount...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: In Table 1 included in the CSO's submission there is a sum of €4.1 billion. Are items such as the fuel allowance outside that figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: They are included in the direct subsidies that are potentially damaging to the environment that the CSO has included in its detailed table, for which the figure comes to €1.8 billion. Then there are the indirect subsidies that are potentially damaging to the environment, for which the figure comes to €2.3 billion. In the last chapter it is stated fossil fuel subsidies are...

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