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Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: What does Mr. Murphy think?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: Does Mr. Murphy have no comment good, bad or indifferent?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: Can Mr. Murphy tell us about the audit committee? Does the audit committee have an accountant?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: The organisation has an audit committee with no one who is an expert in accounting.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: In other things.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: Is it satisfactory for Mr. Murphy to have an audit committee that has no one with expertise in accountancy? Does that not tell us something about the appointments to the board?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: Does Mr. Murphy not think it essential? In every public limited company, there is always an accountant either as chairman or as a member of the audit committee. The National Transport Authority does not have that because it does not have anyone with an accountancy qualification on its board. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: Why not?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: There is an auditor who does not sit on the audit committee and people who are not auditors sit on the audit committee. Does this tell us something about the extraordinary selection process of these boards?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: Let us get on to the role of the National Transport Authority in respect of the public service obligation and CIE. The National Transport Authority receives a large block of money from the Department and has total discretion.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: Has the National Transport Authority made any large changes to the allocation of money to CIE?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: In 2011, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, reduced the subsidy amount by €21 million. Was that approved by the National Transport Authority?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: The Government makes the decisions on cuts, but the National Transport Authority makes the decision on the distribution. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: The NTA works within that allocation yet within days it has granted fares increases.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: I am trying to establish the sequence of events. In 2011, the Minister announced a cut of €21 million and within days the National Transport Authority announced the fare increases in CIE. One of the reasons given was the cut in the subsidy.

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: That seems pretty extraordinary. When the Minister cuts the budget by €21 million, the NTA seeks a fare increase to cover the expenditure in CIE. In fact the increase in the fares more than compensated for the loss of subsidy

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: What I am trying to get at is that the Government must cut back and it seems sensible to cut the subsidy by €21 million but that puts pressure on CIE to get its house in order and by God it needs to put its house in order, it is a shambles. The NTA rescues CIE immediately and takes the pressure off it by giving it a fares rise. As far as I remember the NTA press release gives the...

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: I am not disputing any of that. My point is that CIE is a deeply inefficient organisation. It has real expenditure problems. This organisation before it was set up spent €500,000 on a report to outline there was corruption in CIE. CIE threw money to conduct a secret report. What the NTA is doing is getting buses to run efficiently but it is shovelling money at an organisation that...

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: One cannot give public money to CIE if it is not performing its duties. The National Transport Authority is also a regulator. Is that not the case?

Public Accounts Committee: National Transport Authority - Financial Statement 2011 (24 Jan 2013)

Shane Ross: Let me get this right. The National Transport Authority has €265 million to give to CIE, one way or another, and how the company manages its internal accounts is irrelevant to the authority. Is that what Mr. Murphy is saying?

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