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Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (28 Jun 2023)

Shane Cassells: Mr. Lynch has stated it was a verbal arrangement, has Mr. Lynch made inquiries because the suspension of Ms Forbes last week has removed one person from that process?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (28 Jun 2023)

Shane Cassells: In respect of the suspension of Ms Forbes, did Ms Ní Raghallaigh have a conversation with her before that suspension?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (28 Jun 2023)

Shane Cassells: In terms of setting out to Ms Forbes why she was being suspended, can Ms Ní Raghallaigh tell me what she said to her in that respect?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (28 Jun 2023)

Shane Cassells: Indeed. Ms Ní Raghallaigh can appreciate that the suspension of that person has removed the one witness effectively from this process of trying to find out what has happened. The RTÉ statement yesterday squarely put the blame on one person.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (28 Jun 2023)

Shane Cassells: Mr. Lynch, this morning we heard that Ryan Tubridy is out of contract, something he has since rejected, and that new contract negotiations have now been paused. I ask Mr. Lynch if Ryan Tubridy will be back on the air at RTÉ?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (28 Jun 2023)

Shane Cassells: Does Mr. Lynch envisage him coming back on air in the long term?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (28 Jun 2023)

Shane Cassells: Okay.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: I welcome the witnesses. I will start with the raising of the two invoices in 2022 by Mr. Kelly to the barter company, and the report by Grant Thornton. The document states that Mr. Kelly said he had spoken to the commercial director about year two of the five-year contract but she said it was not her problem. Mr. Kelly said it was not his either and that he should not have to come up with...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: I know that is referred to on page 5, but the reality is that there was €150,000 in transactions credited eventually to Tuttle Productions for work that was not done.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: I grew up in a world where one only paid money for things that were actually received. From Mr. Tubridy's perspective, did he not feel that this did not sit well that he was paid €150,000 into his account for work that was not yet done?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: I listened to the evidence this morning. Mr. Tubridy and Mr. Kelly have sought to separate the two items of the contract with RTÉ for "The Late Late Show" and the morning radio show as a contract for those earnings, and then the tripartite deal, which both Mr. Tubridy and Mr. Kelly are saying was a contract for Mr. Tubridy's services, and that this is not linked to the basic pay. Is...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: Mr. Tubridy has said that the difference is the perception of that income for the other job.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: This goes to the heart of the matter. Earlier, Mr. Kelly stated that the motivation was one where RTÉ was attempting to keep the primary sponsor, Renault, on board and locked in. RTÉ's take on this is much different. In his evidence to this committee on 28 June, Mr. Adrian Lynch said: "... there was a negotiation going on in the autumn of 2019. The negotiation was obviously not...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: That is part of what Mr. Kelly said earlier. Mr. Kelly keeps referring to this as Mr. Tubridy having waived €120,000 and that he had taken a cut of €500,000. My perception is that Mr. Tubridy had said enough was enough and that he had taken enough pay cuts. As Mr. Lynch said, there were issues there but they could not get the deal over the line. This deal was stalled until...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: But it is clear from the negotiations. It is a reality. Mr. Lynch said the negotiations were stalled in autumn 2019 and that six days before Christmas there was a situation where things were moving again because of the creation of the deal.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: I am not buying that. Everything today has been about it being an RTÉ initiative. Let us move on to the emails from Ms Breda O'Keeffe to Mr. Kelly where she talks about meeting Mr. Kelly half way, the fees and so forth. This is point one in the contract discussions. Point two is quite clearly the €75,000 from a commercial relationship, where she said: "We have progressed...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: It is on page No. 7, contract discussions, item No. 2.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: Clearly.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: The point is that Mr. Lynch had said that negotiations were stalled. Ms O'Keeffe sets out the key components for agreeing this deal. She uses the phrase "We too are very keen" to retain "Ryan for his services". This offer of the €75,000 was a key point for negotiations. Mr. Kelly keeps referring to the basic pay. The basic pay is one thing but the deal was not happening without...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Shane Cassells: Hang on a second. It is in the document. In terms of them trying to negotiate and progress the negotiations, it states in point 2: "We are progressing the discussions with a third party. We are offering the €75,000 to you." Is Mr. Tubridy accepting that was a key component of making sure he signed the contract? He signed the contract.