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Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: The reason we are here is because the focus has been on individual allowances and the business cases for their sustainability. It is a cost containment exercise on the part of the State. The Minister has indicated he recognises that many of the allowances form part of what is called core pay. He has conceded the system is ragged at the edges and not terribly coherent. On several occasions...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr Purcell is speaking about the allowances themselves.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I was asking a broader question so I take it the answer is that such a discussion has not taken place.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: My next question is for Mr. Clinton and it is on the allowances which will be disallowed for new recruits. When the new pension arrangements were introduced for the public service, new entrants were put on a different footing to those in service. We now see a similar gap opening up between serving officers and new entrants with regard to allowances. What is Mr. Clinton's view on this? In...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: How does Mr. Donnellan view continuing allowances for incumbents and disallowing them for new entrants? Does he see it as problematic?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Does Mr. Donnellan see these differentials causing a problem at any stage for the annualised hours system?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I note a number of the allowances which will not apply to new entrants and I wish to ask about several of them. I ask Mr. Donnellan to talk me through them. These include clerk to the suicide review forum and clerk to the security committee in Portlaoise, and I think I saw on the screen an allowance for clerk to the prison visiting committees. The savings involved are extremely modest and...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Is Mr. Donnellan satisfied that getting rid of these allowances will not result in an inferior service and that it is not a downgrading of the committees?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: My final question is for Mr. Purcell and relates to the Department. Is No. 8 at Vote 44, delegates' allowances, gone?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: They are not under review. Rather, they have been knocked on the head, as it were. We went through the common Civil Service allowances with the Department recently. In Mr. Purcell's letter to the clerk of the committee, Mr. McEnery, Mr. Purcell noted that Vote 24's allowances in respect of staff at children's detention schools had not been included in the attached lists and so on because...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I presume we will get the information from the Department. Mr. Purcell discussed reform within the system, annualised hours and so forth. In the Department of Justice and Equality, the Irish Prison Service and so on, much of the discussion of allowances is on cost containment, not reform. We need a useful discussion on reform of the delivery of services, among other things.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Justice and Equality - Review of Allowances (25 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: The figure Mr. Purcell gave for the increase in committals since 2008 is staggering. The task is considerable. The expectation is that the anomalies within the pay system will be ironed out so that the public understands what is being paid for and the service staff are not undermined by the perception that they are getting money for old rope. Although this is important, the broader reform...

Public Accounts Committee: Irish Congress of Trade Unions - Review of Allowances (31 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I welcome the delegates. On the issue of non-consultation, I read Ms Nunan's opinion piece in The Irish Times yesterday regarding the reductions in remuneration for new teachers. In respect of accusations that the unions sold out new entrants to the public sector, she states: "The unions were not part of the decision on allowances. In fact the unions were frozen out of this process..." Is...

Public Accounts Committee: Irish Congress of Trade Unions - Review of Allowances (31 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Having been excluded or frozen out of the process initially, it strikes me as odd that, as a group, the delegates have come before the committee with no view in respect of the allowances. We are conversant at this stage with the wide range of allowances and the history behind them. As Mr. Cody observed, many of them predate the formation of the State. In that context, I am surprised to...

Public Accounts Committee: Irish Congress of Trade Unions - Review of Allowances (31 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I heard Ms King make that point.

Public Accounts Committee: Irish Congress of Trade Unions - Review of Allowances (31 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: Thank you for that, Ms King. I did hear the earlier contribution and was struck by it. The question I am asking, however, is whether that very clearly articulated position is the position of the group. Ms King is speaking on behalf of SIPTU, but I want to know whether it is the position of the ICTU's public services committee that allowances will be defended in the definitive way she has...

Public Accounts Committee: Irish Congress of Trade Unions - Review of Allowances (31 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am interested in the consolidation issue, which is a point well made. If Mr. Geraghty does not mind, however, before addressing that I would like a simple answer from the delegates as to whether it is their position, as a committee, that the continuation of the payment of allowances to members will be defended.

Public Accounts Committee: Irish Congress of Trade Unions - Review of Allowances (31 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: I know where the discussions will take place.

Public Accounts Committee: Irish Congress of Trade Unions - Review of Allowances (31 Oct 2012)

Mary Lou McDonald: No, and I understand that this has been made abundantly clear. However, it is entirely legitimate for members of this committee to ask the witnesses whether, given they represent their constituent unions and are a committee of the ICTU, members are correct in assuming the unions will defend the continued payment of these allowances. I seek a "Yes" or "No" answer.

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