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Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: Will the Cathaoirleach show the Senator my amendments to convince him? They have nothing to do with that.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: The Senator is telling me that my amendments derive from the commissioner's comments on the Bill before us. That is not so.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: Who is confusing them?

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: On a point of order, can I again say the amendments I tabled are written in the same way as this Bill is written – amendments to the principal Act. They were indicated as such and I brought this specifically to the attention of the Clerk of the House. In all cases they have been brought in as amendments that could be taken simpliciter, in the sense that they would constitute a new section...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: I have two questions. Will the Minister list the practical and legal difficulties? This is the value of Committee Stage because it cannot be done on Report Stage. Are there other websites we should look at for information? Are other pieces of information, that are germane and relevant to this Bill, published in other places? I am seeking a clear "yes" or "no" answer. The most important issue,...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: It does.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: This is crucial. The Cathaoirleach ruled that we could discuss the amendment but we could not put it before the House. It was read out by Senator Henry. The amendment is almost the same as in the Interpretation Act 1937. It states: The word "person" shall, unless the contrary intention appears, [those few words are not being proposed here] be construed as importing a body corporate (whether a...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: I asked the Minister a question. It might be useful to take a break so the Minister can get the facts together.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: I would be happy to do that but the difficulty is that I will not have the opportunity to discuss them. That was my point. The Minister and I can meet outside the Chamber and have a reasonable conversation but I can do no more with it. That is the difficulty. The Cathaoirleach said this can be discussed on Committee Stage. What has now emerged, and this attaches no personal blame to the...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: This is the sequence as I understand it. We were told that this document, the amendments to improve the Freedom of Information Act, which was presented to the Minister in February was discussed by the Department's officials with the Information Commissioner and that they reached certain conclusions. That concerned section 2 of the principal Act. The Minister of State is now telling me,...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: On a point of order, the Cathaoirleach has ruled that I can raise these matters on this section. He specifically ruled on that point on three occasions. I am simply raising the interpretation of "person" and that which is in my first amendment.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: May I ask about the question of legal difficulties?

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: Is the ruling that if the journalist were to ask for the information, it could be construed that somebody else had it and that there was a legal difficulty?

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: Is that the advice? Is that exactly where we stand?

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: It is the person who asked for it. All this section does is to say that it can be construed as importing whichever.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: That is not the import of it. The import is that it does not matter which one of them asks for the information. Whoever asks for it can receive it. It is written down that a person should be construed to be a body corporate. That is all is says; it says nothing else and it is that simple. If somebody writes in from a newspaper they can be dealt with as a person. It depends on who signs their...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: Yes. Question put. Tá

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: It has been brought to my attention that in the course of an energetic response some time back I used unparliamentary language, for which I deeply apologise to the House. It was not something I planned to do and I was not even aware of it until it was brought to my attention. I am sorry about that and I should not have done it. It does not show proper respect for the House and I am sorry.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: He is the expert.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (11 Mar 2003)

Joe O'Toole: There is gorgeous irony in Senator Leyden's approach. He argues that it is somehow odd that Members on this side adopt a different position from the commissioner on some aspects of the Bill, without realising that he is doing precisely the same from the opposite perspective. I love the irony of this, although the fact that it is wasted is a little depressing. This is an important moment to...

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