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Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: As a recent member of the tax strategy group, I welcome the Minister's announcement. They help inform public opinion and economic analysis. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: The amendment adds more bureaucracy to the system. As I said last week, freedom of information requests are dealt with by the sections to which they relate. I cannot see the value of what is being proposed. I am saying this as somebody who, when I was a civil servant, was on the circulation list of Iris Oifigiúil, which normally consisted of one person – me.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: I have had great difficulty, including with the benefit of the commissioner's report, in following this argument about the difference between the words "contain" and "relate to". I am not convinced there is an enormous difference between them or any difference at all. Both require some interpretation in individual instances. I find it difficult to agree that a substantial change is being proposed.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: I support what Senator White has said. When the State imposes fees, there is usually provision for them to be waived or reduced for those in various categories not in a position to afford them. I would also include students of journalism among those categories. I agree with the Senator. I see no reason whatsoever mainstream journalistic organisations should not pay such fees. They are...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: Hear, hear.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: Not full whack.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: In defence of the Minister, he indicated in response to points Senator White and I made that he was willing to consider, perhaps by regulation rather than by amendment, reduced charges for certain categories. He has taken account of the debate in this regard. I agree that this section is at the heart of the Bill. It involves reconciling the freedom of the deliberative process in government...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: People on all sides of the House are unhappy with the definition. I am not saying that I support the amendment, but I feel that the definition of officials should be considered by the Minister. It seems that the Sunday newspapers will no longer include details of correspondence between the Minister for Finance and other Ministers. Such correspondence has reassured me in all cases, as it has...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: Is it possible to state that a little more explicitly in the legislation?

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: I am sorry that the Labour Party has suddenly become so defeatist about these deliberations. It is important to go through these sections on Report Stage, especially as some of the amendments were not tabled on Committee Stage because of the Information Commissioner's report. The deliberations have helped clarify sections of the Bill, put real fears at rest and will inform any final tweaking...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: I do not know what was Senator O'Meara's experience as a special adviser but when it comes to an issue such as unemployment, there are any number of expert group reports published. The real difficulty is getting to read them all. In the economic and social area, particularly because of the social partnership process, there is no shortage of advisory group reports. To be fair, the Government...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: Did the Senator ever engage in such a practice?

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: Very briefly, I am not sure that it is appropriate for an outside, independent official to second-guess or second-judge what is the state of a deliberative process.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: Like some of the other amendments, this would make the whole process impossibly bureaucratic. Secretaries General are very busy people and it makes no administrative sense to add to their burdens.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: I wish to deal with the international relations aspect. One could make the case that the release of an individual report from, for example, our ambassador to Rome, or the Italian ambassador here, about a banal conversation would not harm the interests of the State. The problem is whether one's international relations as a whole would be covered in confidence. If a judgment has to be made on...

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: That was Government information agreements.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: I take exception to that sort of attack. We have been working very well through the sections of the Bill. We are glad to have the Minister here and he has treated the House with great respect by being here throughout Report Stage.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: An unprovoked attack was made. Therefore, it can be replied to by a provoked defence.

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: Any party in this House can be in Government or in Opposition. There is merit in having communications between political parties and the Department of Finance kept confidential. On the second point—

Seanad: Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages. (20 Mar 2003)

Martin Mansergh: Senator Ryan may not always be in Opposition—

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