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Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: As much as Deputy Kelly, with whom I rarely disagree, thinks that what I am proposing is difficult to do or perhaps not worth doing, I equally think back to the point made by Deputies O'Connell and Durkan. If somebody gets cancer five, ten or 15 years later, it is not necessarily the case that is linked back to a smear test and an audit many years ago, as the Chairman, as a doctor, will...

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: Yes.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: We think that may be legally possible but whether it would be successful is a matter for the court to decide.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: It is my understanding that it would be a new case.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: On a new case.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: In fairness, Deputy Bríd Smith raised this point in the Dáil during statements on CervicalCheck and I get the point.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: Yes, absolutely. It is a case of whether it is seen as a new case by the High Court. Rather than accidentally adding to the confusion, I think I can usefully seek clarification for committee members on the situation that Deputy Donnelly has illustrated well. If a cancer comes back, can the individual go to the High Court on that matter? I think that is a useful point on which we can...

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: The rules of the High Court apply here on this. We are trying to find a better pathway than going to the High Court. Mr. Justice Meenan outlined how he believes this is better. It is heard in private, there are written statements, experts are available to the judges, there are case management protocols and so on, but we are still applying the fundamental rules of law which would apply in...

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: I am fully aware of the substance of what Deputy Donnelly seeks to do with the amendment. It is something we all want to do. I would differentiate between the State's legal representatives and those of the laboratories in terms of questioning and cross-examining in what the Deputy referred to. I have examined this already and taken advice. I have also seen some court cases and rulings...

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: That is a fair point.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: To balance my partisan persuasions, Deputy Donnelly made the key point in this round of exchanges. We need to address it. Deputy Kelly acknowledged that Deputy Donnelly's amendment would go a long way towards doing so, but I have two options to achieve what I see as the same aim. My preferred option is to come back with a version of Deputy Donnelly's amendment. There will be a variation,...

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: I want the same thing. The legislation as drafted states that where a claimant requests the tribunal to hold a hearing or part of a hearing in public and the tribunal agrees it would be appropriate to do so, the tribunal shall conduct the hearing, or part of the hearing, concerned in public. The Deputy is asking, understandably, whether this is strong enough and whether we need to be...

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: No, the Deputy is correct.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: The default position is that all of the hearings will take place in private unless the woman says she wants it to be in public or part of it to be in public.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: The tribunal does need to agree to that; the tribunal needs to agree it is appropriate to be heard in public bit but there is no part where the tribunal can say it will be in public. It is the reverse.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: This is the bit on which I will seek clarity because I cannot see how it will happen. The default position of our Judiciary and courts is that everything is in public so judges are used to holding hearings in public. I cannot imagine such a situation but we are right to probe it. I will come back to the Deputy on Report Stage on it if there is a need to tighten the language, but I do not...

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: A hearing definitely will not be held in public without the woman's consent.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: In my view it is. The question Deputy O'Reilly asked is the reverse, with regard to whether the wording is robust enough where a woman states she does want something heard in public. I will need to check whether the wording is robust enough for this.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: No.

Select Committee on Health: CervicalCheck Tribunal Bill 2019: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2019)

Simon Harris: Let me check both positions with the tribunal and revert.

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