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Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: The entire running costs for Caranua, leaving administration of the fund out of it, amount to €11.38 million. What is the total bill for staff and buildings since Caranua started? I will have to leave to vote.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I have to leave to vote. Are we coming straight back?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I return to the number of cases and people. Some 5,695 people applied for and received money, having gone through the system, while others, for whatever reason, did not reach the end. Has Ms Downes to hand the figure for Caranua's total staff costs since it started? I refer to the costs for regular staff, external consultants and-----

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Caranua might revert to us with the figure for the total spend. My question is how much Caranua spent administering a fund of approximately €111 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: The total staffing costs. I refer also to legacy bills, such as for redundancy payments due to staff if and when the organisation is-----

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Yes, but we can drag out the trajectory in that regard.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I would like it broken down into staff and bills that will arise when the organisation winds down. What will be outstanding in terms of money going out? What will be needed in the bank to pay people what they are due? The Chairman referred to spend on rental property and any other cost to administer the service. The percentage-----

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: How much did it cost to run the organisation from the time it started until now?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: An aggregate cost.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I just want to see it on the screen.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Can we could have it broken down yearly on a landscape page so we can read it?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Is there a figure for the head covering incidentals, expenses, education and training in the most recent accounts? I am trying to understand the amount that has been spent under that head.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: That is not too bad. I suppose it depends on the number training. That is fine. When Deputy Cullinane was asking questions earlier I think Ms Downes mentioned the flexibility required when dealing with complex cases. I am concerned about the weaknesses in the set-up and that the money may not have fed down to the people most at risk or unable to engage with the organisation. That is my...

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: What were the findings from that?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I am not talking about what Caranua has done since. When the witnesses look back on what they had done, was there any evidence to show that the people who were more able had more access to the fund? I am not asking what they did since then but what they learned from that.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Absolutely.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I am concerned that the organisation was set up in a way that those who might have been the most vulnerable, if that is the word I should use, did not have access to the fund. I am not saying someone's depression is more worthy than somebody's sore foot. That is not what I am assessing and I do not believe it is within our remit. I am trying to find out if the money went to the most...

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: That is not my question. Ms Downes said she conducted an evaluation two years ago. What did she learn then? Was there a heavy weighting in that certain people received much more money and other people had not engaged? What were the findings?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: In terms of outliers, say, somebody who got €100,000, does Ms Downes look at that and say there is a good reason they got €65,000 more than this person because-----

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