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Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: Well, let us have that discussion and see how we can do things better. I do not intend to press my amendment. I take on board exactly what the Tánaiste has said but would like to hear from him whether he might share with us his ideas when they are fleshed out a little bit better and before they are presented to us and we are told that amendments are wonderful but are not accepted and...

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: Could the Tánaiste respond for one minute?

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: In truth, that will be the Department of Defence presenting it because other Ministers will not really be involved in that. As the Tánaiste has said, I have some experience in Government.

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: The Tánaiste will present it to his colleagues and there will not really be the type of scrutiny I would like.

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: After the Tánaiste has decided what is going to happen.

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: I thank the Tánaiste. I will withdraw the amendment.

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: I move amendment No. 2: In page 9, lines 10 and 11, to delete "in relation to a political matter or matter of Government policy" and substitute "in relation to a matter for political controversy". I wish to discuss amendment No. 2 and all the amendments that are related physically and, I suppose, transubstantially, in various ways. Amendment No. 2 is an important amendment and it...

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: Yes, they should not be party political.

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: The Bill also refers to members of the Defence Forces who are otherwise identifiable as such.

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: The Bill states "identifiable".

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: Nobody is going to argue against the proposition that the Defence Forces should be apolitical, should be perceived to be apolitical and should not be involved in any political controversy. That is a given. However, we are not still in 1954. In other developed countries, such as the Netherlands and others, there is a more participative discussion with defence forces personnel as workers on...

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: Yes but that is not clear.

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: No, "without prejudice to the purpose of the association" is fine. As the Tánaiste said, that is a catch-all phrase but it has no right. If we look at the prohibited activities of an association under section 2A on page 28, it cannot make a public statement or comment concerning a matter of Government policy. That is black and white, as opposed to the catch-all the Tánaiste is...

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: Or making themselves identifiable.

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: The Tánaiste is right that the view of the Attorney General is there is a saver clause that allows discussion but there is an explicit prohibition that overrules it, as the Bill states they cannot engage in a matter of Government policy. If anybody looks at the Bill, they will see it is explicit that they cannot do it. The Tánaiste may state there are other undisclosed matters...

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: If it were Government policy not to give-----

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: I move amendment No. 4: In page 9, lines 12 and 13, to delete “in relation to a political matter or matter of Government policy” and substitute “in relation to a matter for political controversy”.

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: My amendment No. 7 is in this grouping. As the previous speaker said, these proposals concern the membership of the very important external oversight body. The recommendation to establish such a body to oversee the operations of the Defence Forces really is the kernel of the Bill. The Tánaiste agreed, both at committee and again in our discussions on my first Report Stage amendment,...

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: What has that got to do with anything?

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Report and Final Stages (12 Jun 2024)

Brendan Howlin: We are all in agreement with that.

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