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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: I welcome Ms Nolan, Mr. Reid and Mr. Carville back to the committee. Our hearings are becoming a little like the film "Groundhog Day", with witnesses making return visits to the Committee of Public Accounts. Unfortunately, unlike Bill Murray in the film, our previous repeat visitors before today have not seen a change in the script, although PIMCO's letter this morning will at least make...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: If the Northern Ireland Government was expressing specific preferences for bidders, why would the Minister, Deputy Noonan, and the Department not raise flags, considering it was said that the Department wanted a fully open and transparent process in the previous discussions we had here, yet the Northern Ireland Government was saying it wanted to proceed with just one bidder?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: There is a different version in terms of what it is saying in this letter.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: They obviously do, as again expressed in this letter.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: Okay. In the context of my earlier remarks on the evidence at the time of Ms Nolan's first appearance here, she made the point that there was only one game in town in terms of how this process would proceed, and that there was not an option in her mind or in the Department's mind to work through the loans. How much hard analysis was put forward by NAMA to the Department in respect of an...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: My apologies, I have a very different recollection of our previous conversations and of my questioning of Ms Nolan on the last day in terms of her analysis.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: That is fine I can go back and check on her analysis of the role that NAMA took in this respect and the manner of her defence of the role it took. I think we all asked Ms Nolan did she believe that the role NAMA took was the right course of action in securing the best possible deal for the State.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: That is an interesting point to explore. Ms Nolan said that her interest was in whether it was selling and whether it was getting the money back. The Chairman raised points earlier in respect of table 7, where PIMCO in its bid for assets one to 55 had put in a figure of €950 million, yet NAMA was looking at a figure of €891 million. In terms of issues like that where...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: The Department had no knowledge of that whatsoever.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: Therefore, from the Department's point of view, it is not the case that the objective of selling at all costs trumps everything. That would not be the case from the Department's point of view.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: Ms Nolan said that she was glad that the Comptroller and Auditor General was not making any comment on the commercial aspect of the deal.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: Ms Nolan said she was glad that the Comptroller and Auditor General was not making any comment on the commercial aspect of the deal, is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: Can Ms Nolan expand on that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: What we are discussing is the process.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: By the Comptroller and Auditor General?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: Yes, of course. Ms Nolan agrees that there is validity in the-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: He made the point that the presentation being put forward with a spin by NAMA was that there is an accounting difference and he made the point that this is not simply an accounting difference, rather it is about economic decision-making and how one makes choices in terms of public resources.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: I think that the contention would be different.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: Did the issue of the discount rate arise in Ms Nolan's discussions with the Comptroller and Auditor General or in her response to the report?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Shane Cassells: In terms of the external pressures from the ECB on the Department in respect of the disposal - which we discussed on the last day - can Ms Nolan take us through that again? Was there real pressure coming from the ECB in respect of the disposal of these assets?

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