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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Did you meet anybody else in that kind of time zone, people like Mr. O'Mahony who were working in the financial sector? You've said it was perfectly reasonable for Ministers to take advice from, if you like, outsiders. Were you doing the same thing and, if so, who did you meet?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: On the night of the-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: On the night of the guarantee, you say in your statement that the Taoiseach raised the issue of a broad pre-emptive guarantee early in the discussion. Can you say if there was an analysis presented with that or a comment or a paper to support that view or was it just a verbal statement?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Yes, no, I'm talking about the Taoiseach, whether he had-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: In your statement when you say, "They [meaning the banks] explicitly sought a very broad guarantee, and [they] provided a suggested wording." Do you recall which or ... of the banks, or who provided the wording in the document, and if so, where did that document go in the end? Was it filed somewhere?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: And it was a document, that's your recall?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Before I, before my last question, which is about you looking at that guarantee, do you recall, as was reported by the journalist Pat Leahy, that at one point at the meeting on that night, the Taoiseach said, "We are not effing nationalising Anglo?"

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: And I'm sure others will ask that. In terms of your own statement, you talk about being asked then to draft, and you were using the wording of the banks' own guarantee, and you say you sat down, you were at your computer, and you realised that if you carried on using their wording, you know, it would not be appropriate. You said that in your opinion, "The banks would be laughing at us if we...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: And in what way? Can you remember, Mr. Cardiff? By what do you mean, like, by "wider"? Giving more to the banks?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Well, give a go at it.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Yes. And finally, Mr. Cardiff, do you believe that Anglo Irish Bank had an influence on the Taoiseach that caused him to believe that he was not going to nationalise the banks at that point ... nationalise Anglo Irish Bank at that point? Do you believe that there was an influence there?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Thanks, Chair, I've a couple of ... a few short ... very short and then a couple of longer ones. Apart from the AIB-Bank of Ireland so-called draft guarantee, were there any other external draft guarantees on the table that night, from anybody else?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Were you directed by anybody or did you yourself call anybody for advice ... external advice? And I don't mean, you know, just, "Bring me a document or bring me a cup of tea", but for advice?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Yes, I'm talking about substantial phone calls here.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. Did either the Taoiseah or the Minister for Finance indicate that they'd sought advice from anybody external to the officials and your wider team?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Not on the night.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: On page 36 of your own long statement, you said about Anglo, "...next day they could expect to be another two billion or so in the red, perhaps 8 or 10 billion within a short few days, and trapped in a downward cycle with no exit." Where were Anglo on the night? Why were they not in that room saying, "This is how bad things are"?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Because?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. When Mr. McDonagh was here, on page 56 of his evidence, he says, "[I am sure]", sorry, that we ..."we were very sceptical about the operating models of those two institutions." He was talking there about Anglo and Nationwide. And, on page 51, he says, "I don't think the were solvent" - meaning all the banks, "I don't think they were solvent [on the night of the guarantee]." Given...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (18 Jun 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Or not?

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