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Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: That is what I wanted to know in general. There may be expenses within the constituency - advertisements for clinics, etc. - we are familiar with that.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: It includes telephone bills, because there is no separate telephone allowance or anything like that.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Yes, so we understand what they are for. There is a once-off grant when Deputies enter the Houses of the Oireachtas for the first time. How many of the 166 Deputies have received the once-off grant for setting up their offices? I got it 15 years ago so I cannot be counted.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: I will move on because I want to talk about this allowance. The allowance is €25,700 if vouched and €15,000-----

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Therefore, 127 Deputies out of 166 have claimed that allowance and 29 Deputies have not claimed it.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: One presumes their offices could be in Leinster House.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Therefore, some Ministers could be included.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Are the allowances of €15,000 and €25,700 intended to cover office expenses?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: How many Members have staff located in Leinster House in terms of secretarial and parliamentary assistants? We will start with the Deputies. Mr. Coughlan must know how many secretarial assistants and parliamentary advisers Deputies have.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Does Mr. Coughlan mean that 70 Deputies have staff here?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: No, I am referring to staff in Leinster House. For how many Deputies, approximately, is the Houses of the Oireachtas Service providing accommodation in respect of their secretarial assistants or parliamentary advisers? There are a number of staff members here. I am upfront about it. My staff are fully located in my constituency. I have no accommodation up here for staff, although I have...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: The Houses of the Oireachtas Service is providing the office, phone extension, desk, chairs and other furniture so Mr. Coughlan must know the answer.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: The figure is more than 70?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: If a Deputy had two members of staff in his or her constituency, they would be paid for and covered by the public representation allowance, which covers the Deputy's office, and other Deputies would also get this payment for providing an office in their constituencies. Despite this, the Houses of the Oireachtas Service also provides them with accommodation in Leinster House for some of their...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: That is why I asked how many Deputies have staff here.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Coughlan said 127 Deputies, which is probably 85% of the Deputies, have claimed a grant for a constituency office. The majority of them have their staff in their constituency offices if they have claimed the grant, but the Houses of the Oireachtas Service seems to be providing some Members with extra accommodation up here and yet some Deputies are being paid the full amount for the...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: I can walk down the corridors here and see a Deputy's office and possibly a Deputy's secretary's office beside or adjoining it. One can clearly see there is a different office. On occasion, I could bring one of my staff members up here and he or she would operate out of my office because the Houses of the Oireachtas Service would not have provided me with space for staff up here. The...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: There is an extra cost there that has not been adequately or fully taken into account and I am a bit surprised that we do not know how many Deputies are involved. I have been listening to the figures in respect of the public representation allowance. There are two ways of looking at the fully vouched one. Obviously, the fully vouched one subject to authentication is the most expensive one...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: People would do so because they would have to return a sum if a payment was issued every month and somebody got to the end. I know they are subject to authentication and if a person does not spend or incur all that expense, they might have to return some money at the end of the year. However, I am sure the majority of people on the vouched allowance claim the full allowance. Is that the...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: We should have a discussion about unvouched expenses. The unvouched one is always the cheapest option for the taxpayer but if somebody says I should be on the fully vouched amount at a higher level, that will cost the taxpayer €961,300. If we are making a recommendation, we want verification, auditing and vouching but we would also want to watch the additional costs. The Houses of...

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