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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: It is ad lib.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: A new system is being proposed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: When is this-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: I am just asking for clarification. I am not going to-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: There were probably about 30 millionaires made after that tribunal.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: The Syrian refugees.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: As I was not present for part of the meeting, some of my questions may be repetitious. Unfortunately, I cannot do anything about that. Deputy Connolly referred to a figure of €17.8 million for the Mahon tribunal, which has not yet concluded. We also had the Smithwick tribunal and other tribunals.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Does Ms McPhillips believe tribunals offer value for money? I am not arguing we should not have tribunals. Members of the public want answers and a way must be found to get them answers, but are tribunals the solution given the costs involved? Money is scarce and we have spent a couple of hundred million euro on inquiries. Do they provide value for money and are there easier ways of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: I mean no disrespect to the legal profession, whose members are well trained and educated professionals. While I know a newspaper is only ink on paper, one often reads in newspapers about people who received millions in payments from the Exchequer and taxpayers. It annoys me that this kind of money is paid. One sees the costs per day for members of the legal profession and the support they...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Does Ms McPhillips envisage a better system being put in place for public inquiries, which would have lower costs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: I want to move on. Nearly every speaker has referred to the rent paid for departmental premises on Wolfe Tone Street, Dublin. I thought the witness was a little blasé this morning when referring to a sum of €3.5 million, which went to waste. The attitude was dismissive. It was as if this happened and no one will be held responsible. This money would achieve a great deal in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Was it internal or external legal advice?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: The vendor is the person to whom the Department paid all the money and subsequently compensated.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: He was compensated for giving wrong information.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Will Ms McPhillips respond to that? Did we compensate him?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Rather than giving the vendor money, should we not have taken money back from him for giving wrong information? Am I missing something?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Instead of giving the vendor compensation, should the taxpayer not have sought compensation on the basis of the information given originally? Someone gave clearance in respect of planning permission. Why does the taxpayer have to give the vendor more than €1 million on top of what was paid for the site. We should have taken back the money we gave the vendor.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: We were right, yet we still paid money.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: The Department failed in court.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: The Department settled out of court. Is that correct?

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