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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes. It is easy, with hindsight. Had it charged the expenses as part of its proportion of share capital and not got paid for them, it could have made 500% profit on the costs incurred. It is easy to say, with the benefit of hindsight, particularly when one looks at how well EI did in terms of its share holding. WIT actually got paid but had it carried that and built it in as part of its...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is with the benefit of hindsight. I am sure the witnesses can understand the point I am making with regard to those figures. It is also important to point out that several staff members were involved in a staff incentive scheme. One of the key recommendations is that the HEA should ensure that higher education policies or award schemes take account of potential situations where the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Please explain that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Are they the returns for last September?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Under this recommendation, reward schemes are to take account of potential situations where staff have a financial interest in the company acquiring the intellectual property. Their shareholding is a private matter but if they are part of the staff, surely they should be treated in a uniform way. If some of the staff happen to have, in a private capacity, a shareholding, how can one...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is the way it reads.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: In terms of the reward scheme, the HEA seems to want to differentiate between those staff who have a financial interest in the company and those who do not. At the same time, Mr. O'Toole has said that the HEA does not want to stray into their private financial affairs so how can it make that differentiation if it does not do that? I ask him to explain this conflict. I see that Dr....

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: So it is one or the other. Is the Department relying on the goodwill of the individual to be upfront or have they any obligation to tell it?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: So they will make a calculation on whether they are better getting a staff reward or the other.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: They have to do the long-term gamble themselves. The witnesses can see why I raise this. The final point is for Mr. Beausang on the letter he issued to the chairperson of the governing body of the Waterford Institute of Technology, WIT, on 19 December. I have two or three quick questions solely on this letter. Mr. Beausang wrote back to say "I would like to thank you for meeting with...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Who was with him?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: On his own?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Councillor Jim Moore is just a part-time chairman of the governing body. He is an elected representative. This is a big issue for any elected representative. I would not expect that of an elected person. I am a Teachta Dála and I would not want to deal with this on my own and I would not think a councillor can. From Mr. Beausang's knowledge - and obviously I will exclude Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The obvious question then is why Ms Sheridan was not at that meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I know it is a matter for the governing body but if I see a senior official from the Department of Education and Skills, and Mr. O'Toole and other officials invited, and the voluntary chairman of the board is there on his own I would like to have seen a stronger representation. I thank the chairman for attending of course but-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am putting it as politely as I can. It is unfair on any chairman who has a million other jobs to do.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will they get legal and financial advice externally?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I expect the chairman cannot answer this off his own bat.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: And it would be appropriate.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Absolutely. I 100% get why the letter was written to the chairman, Mr. Moore. The bit I was curious about was who attended that meeting. I am more concerned to hear that the man was there on his own. I am sure he is a totally competent man and I praise him but-----

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