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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I am happy to commit that we will provide for this in the tax strategy group papers next year and that will allow adequate time for consideration of the policy issues in the lead-up to the budget. It is important that, at a time when there is significant policy change in European capital markets as we seek to support our own domestic capital markets, we take account of any unintended...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I have quite a few points to make so I will hold off, if that is okay. On section 35 that applies new measures to outgoing payments of interest, royalties and distributions aimed at the prevention of double non-taxation, I will bring forward a Report Stage amendment to make a minor change to the definition of "relevant payment" to ensure the legislation operates as intended. I will also...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I understand that the other amendments in this group are not being moved. Is that correct? It is just amendment No. 27 in the name of Deputy Pearse Doherty. While I acknowledge that carbon tax has an impact on the price of certain products, it is important to point to hypothecation. On budget day, the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform set out...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I essentially outlined that a budget day paper published by the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform outlines the hypothecation of carbon tax receipts. That was a commitment we made, as the Deputy knows, when the tax was introduced. Some €788 million is being allocated as part of budget 2024 for climate action measures. We have a detailed...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I thank Deputy Doherty for that contribution. Of course pricing has an impact on consumption and on where people source product and I understand the point the Deputy is making. One purpose of increasing the excise is motivated by public health and the need to continue to drive down smoking levels in our society. That is, first and foremost, the objective. There are, of course, other ways...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I thank both Deputies. I assure Deputy English that Revenue remains focused on enforcement activity. It has approximately 2,000 professionals working on enforcement all of the time. On Deputy Doherty's question, it has to be acknowledged that the higher the price goes in the legitimate market, there is the potential that we will see an increasing proportion of overall purchasing coming...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: It is very low. The estimated yield from this measure is €4,500, so it is very low indeed.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I thank the Deputy. This section introduces a new section 92A to the VAT Consolidation Act 2010 which provides for the principles to govern the application of VAT in respect of the deposit return scheme, DRS. That scheme is being introduced by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications and is due to go live in February 2024. The scheme requires that a refundable deposit...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: The operator would pay a refund to the retailer.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I will answer the Deputy’s first question. He gave an example of there being €1 million worth of product that has been returned and the VAT treatment of that. His question was about whether those products could be returned when clearing out the garage a year later or whatever. There are operational issues there. The Revenue will be developing regulations. We expect those to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: No.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: Yes. There will be an operator.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: When a customer returns the can to a retailer, they will get the refund of the deposit from the retailer and the retailer is then reimbursed from the operator. Is there a fee? We understand that in the scheme being developed by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications, there will be a fee to the retailer.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I thank the Deputies for their comments. Regarding Deputy Doherty’s questions, the 16% rate is to ensure it is GBER compliant. As to the timeline, I want to commence this as quickly as possible, and certainly no later than quarter 1 of next year, in part due to the risk Deputy Doherty rightly highlighted. It is only new investments following the commencement of this provision that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: My understanding is there will be a standard VAT rate applied to the fee. It is a separate issue to the treatment of the VAT on the unreturned product.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2023)

Michael McGrath: I understand it is one operator.

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