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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: One could have got the impression the staff were not trained in some way. That is the fault of the Irish Prison Service.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes. I am giving Ms McCaffrey the opportunity.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Ms McCaffrey does not need to apologise. It is just a matter of clarifying. The retraining was mentioned three or four times. If there are 3,000 staff, they could be wondering whether Ms McCaffrey is blaming them for not being trained.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I know it was not Ms McCaffrey's intention. I am raising it to clarify it in case some people watching take the other meaning. What is the position involving the Garda and the Irish Prison Service regarding security when transferring prisoners? There are 41,000 transfers per annum. Obviously, the Irish Prison Service has to have a serious protocol. Is the Garda always available at the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Ms McCaffrey is clear on that. We hear on the news every week that somebody on remand or whatever video links to the court. How many prisons have the video link facility? I am sure that video link reduces the number of prisoners transferred.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is happening already.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is because the gardaĆ­ have to come to the prison and serve the warrant-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: -----or it has to be given to somebody to pass on to the prison. How many video links were there last year between the Prison Service and the courts? For every one, there is one transfer less.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is a small percentage. The Irish Prison Service is trying to increase that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I presume they are remand issues.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Primarily. We hear this referred to. Ms McCaffrey is saying the process is in its infancy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is a court in the Wheatfield complex, or the west Dublin complex. That obviously reduces-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is there a court in the Mountjoy complex?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The majority are to or from the District Court or whatever and might not require a garda. I will not put all my questions now and will come back a second time. How many cases involving the Irish Prison Service are before the Labour Relations Commission?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay. We mentioned assaults on prison officers a minute ago. What is the process in place and the protocol involving the Irish Prison Service and Garda regarding the taking of witness statements? If it happens in a public place, that is fine. Let us say it happens within the four walls of a prison. Does everything have to go through the governor? What is the protocol? Do the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Would these be criminal offences possibly leading to court cases and prosecution?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: What is the protocol for deciding the witnesses from whom statements need to be taken? Has the governor any role in this?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I thought there was some protocol. We were told before that if there is a case involving a prison officer, the governor is notified and that it is then up to him or her to inform the staff member of the issue. We have heard that if there is an issue involving a prison officer, the Garda does not deal directly with individual prison officers. It works through the governor or the liaison...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I understand that and we are agreed on it, but I refer to the decision on what witness statements are taken. It seems that the governor or liaison officer has some role in channelling the information from the prison to gardaĆ­ to some extent.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It has been highlighted to us, as members, that information was being channelled relative to the prison officer affected. It was said the information was channelled by the governor to the Garda or liaison officer but it was not given down to the prison officer, which led to difficulty. I am not asking Ms McCaffrey to comment on the case. There is a command structure in regard to the flow...

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