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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I thank the witnesses who attended and, as the Chairperson referenced, the timeliness with which we got this documentation. It was very helpful in preparing for the meeting. There is still a large volume of documentation, which is difficult to get through, but it made a big difference to get it so early in the day. I will concentrate first on the land aggregation scheme, LAGS, which we...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: The phrase here is that local authorities could only transfer a land that had a reasonable residential development potential. I will begin with that because it is a very hazy phrase. Can the witnesses give me more detail on the metrics? First, the Department approved or rejected the inclusion of sites into the LAGS. How many were rejected? How many did we buy and how many did we say...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Was it 73?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: A good number were rejected and did not hit reasonable residential development potential. How was that defined? Looking through the map, which is where I started, and trying to understand it, I wonder about it. What metrics were applied?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: They were assessed again in 2018.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Of the 73 sites that were first acquired, when it was returned to in 2018, did people say, “Jeepers. We might be after buying a pig in a poke here. Applying present metrics, there is no way we would touch these now”?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Can Mr. Baneham give me an understanding of the constraints? Are all of these sites currently zoned residential?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: We will incur a certain amount of liability under the residential zoned land tax.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Have many been impacted by changes in county development plans, for example?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Is there a constraint on what is allowed to be built on these sites? Does it have to be social or social affordable? Are there density guidelines that need to be adhered to?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: We can accept the historical situation that local authorities between 2010 and 2012 absolutely needed the bailout, and I think we can probably accept that we kissed a lot of frogs. There are 40-odd sites we are not seeing any movement on. A question arose as I was reading the material. Where is the endpoint? At what point do we say there are 40 sites that we cannot move on? Some sites...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Could Mr. Jordan provide a rough estimation? I do not mean a back-of-the-envelope estimate. Have we spent €132 million on these sites? We reckon there is an estimated market value €56 million. That is from the Comptroller and Auditor General's opening statement. How deep are we in the hole? How much does Mr. Jordan reckon this will cost the State by the time we actually...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Money.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I have question for the Department on the budgeting process. I was looking through Vote 34. We are supposed to pay attention to anything that is plus or minus 5%. The following is just from two pages in front of me. There was a provision of €500,000 for mortgage provision. The outturn was €397,000, which means there was an underspend of 20%. There was also a provision for...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I also sit on the Joint Committee on Social Protection, Rural and Community Development and the Islands. The Department of Social Protection also has a massive budget. I know what we do with the Estimates and Supplementary Estimates processes.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I run through what is presented and look for the percentage variances. Where there is a big one that is where I ask a question. I can tell you it is not-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: It is not of this size and it is not as many instances. Certainly we are not looking at variations that are 50% plus or minus across heads that are in the millions of euro.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I am just imagining it. I have not had the privilege of being a member of Cabinet or anything like that, but I can imagine it. We all hear that housing is one factor in the breakdowns in the social contract we are seeing in Ireland. It is a huge priority for this Government. I am imagining the Minister with responsibility for housing having to walk in and face the Minister for Public...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage - Programme A - Housing
Financial Statements 2022 - The Housing Agency
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 11 - Utilisation of the Land Aggregation Scheme Sites
(14 Dec 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I had to pop out for another engagement, so I apologise if there is any duplication. I want to talk about HAP, if it has not already been spoken about. It is a case of the old joke about how you get to Cahersiveen. The punchline is, "I would not start from here." I certainly would not start from here with HAP, but it is clearly not something we can just bring an end to. The expenditure...

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