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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: I happened to be having a meeting with the Taoiseach who, coincidentally, happened to be in my Department-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: -----on 9 November. My understanding is that both the Taoiseach and I became aware on 9 November. I think I was aware earlier in the day but I am not certain-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: -----but both of us became aware on the same day, to the very best of my recollection.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: I cannot speak for the Minister.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: His officials would have been aware on that date anyway. When he was aware of the matter-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: Yes. I think a formal report was submitted on 19 November.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: I think all of that is true, yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: On 9 November, the Taoiseach was visiting my Department and officials from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform were there as well. It should not be construed - I know that the Deputy has not suggested this - that this was a meeting about the children's hospital as it was not. On that day that information happened to be available and those present at the meeting would have been...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: I actually have to check how the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform was informed on 9 November. I did not inform him on 9 November.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: The Deputy referenced what the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform said yesterday.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: He was not informed by me directly. He was, presumably, informed by his officials.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: Sure.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: Mr. Breslin is better placed to answer that but the short answer is that at an official level, there was official engagement in October. I think Mr. Breslin answered that at the Committee of Public Accounts.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: I apologise. I read the transcript but maybe I read it wrongly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: We knew about the potential of an emerging problem.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: I can only answer for myself and my Department. As I said to Deputy Donnelly earlier, the €61 million arose in September 2017. I appreciate that Deputy Kelly accepts that is different and thank him for that. I wrote on 20 September with regard to the information I was given. The Government has been very clear that this project needs to come in within budget, for all the good that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: On the note I was given which I am happy to give to Deputy Kelly, which told me about the €61 million. I wrote on 20 September 2017 that the Government has to be very clear that this project needs to come within budget. That was the position of the Government, of the Department of Health, my Secretary General and senior officials, who fed the information back through the appropriate...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: I will get to that. I share the Deputy's frustrations and it is a reason for having an external review. I refer to the role of the governance structures and why there was not what I am politely calling the early warning system, to which my Secretary General and the HSE have referred. Even board members have reflected on it. The questions of why flags were not raised earlier and who decided...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Simon Harris: The Secretary General might answer the question.

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