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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Following the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, the budget for 2017 was in the order of €2 million. It is included in the chart that has been published. What is the budget for the coming year, 2019? The budget allocations for the National Cyber Security Centre from 2012 to 2017, inclusive, are included in the chart on page 97 of the report. The budget moved up a lot...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is fine, but I am asking-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes. The figure for 2017 was published by way of a parliamentary question and it is in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. I am aware that it is not separately identified in the Estimate document. That is not my question. What is the projected figure for the security centre for 2019?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: How does that compare to 2017? Is there much of an increase?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: An approximate figure will do.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: During the course of the summer the Department was finalising the report and the recommendations. The Comptroller and Auditor General, in his 2017 report, states that the Department indicated it expects to publish a new national cybersecurity strategy by the end of 2018. This is in writing. It is now nearing the end of 2018.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Secretary General has been busy with broadband. I note that there were to be meetings of an interdepartmental high level steering committee involving the national cybersecurity centre, the Department of the Taoiseach, an assistant commissioner from An Garda Síochána, a principal officer in the Department of Justice and Equality, a colonel from the Defence Forces and a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: What is the function of that interdepartmental committee? Does it have a role or should it be disbanded?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: This was which committee?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Who chairs that Cabinet committee? Is it a sub-committee?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is that chaired by the Taoiseach directly?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: The witnesses will understand that most people are confused by the difference between and operator of an essential service, OES, and a digital service provider, DSP. The Department's notes state that the digital service provider includes cloud computing, online sales and search engines. I assume these are all in the private sector.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: On the other hand, quite a few of the operators of essential services might be in the public service.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Griffin listed some 60 entities as operators of essential services. Is the list published? Is it confidential? That is okay. How many of these entities are digital service providers?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: With whom do they register to make it known they are a digital service provider?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I take it most of those DSPs are, by definition, transnational and operate across Europe and other continents.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is because of the multinational companies such as Google and so on.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am worried about the reputation of the State. If something happens with one of these companies that are headquartered in Ireland, will people say that cybersecurity was not up to the mark in Ireland? It might be the company's fault if there was a breach of its security system, but if its headquarters are in Ireland, the message can very easily travel the world - within an hour - that...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I see in this report that the Minister is the competent authority in respect of the operators of essential services, which we spoke about, and the digital service providers. If there is an issue, there is some political and democratic accountability through the Minister. The document also says, however, that the Central Bank is the designated competent authority in respect of the financial...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am sorry to introduce more complex issues at this hour of the evening, but we are nearly there.

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