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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: All I wanted to suggest was that this could be taken into account.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: It should be considered.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: May I come in on this correspondence? This committee has received a lot of correspondence on this issue and I note that, in one letter recently received, the correspondent expresses the belief this committee's handling of the correspondent's case should be investigated by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation, as the correspondent considers the committee has gone out of its way to cover up...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: During the summer somebody sent me a set of the audited school transport accounts and a separate set of financial statements. They were audited independently by one of the main firms. There is information available. I think it is an EU requirement. I am sure it is not being used to subsidise Bus Éireann's other activities. I am not saying I agree with anything in it or that I...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: We have spent an hour or more talking about the Waterford-Dublin return flight on 31 March 2007, and also the UK-Dublin return flight. We need further details.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: The Bell Airways invoice refers to a Waterford-Dublin return flight on 20 March 2007.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: It is written on the invoice. That is what I am going by. It says "return". The invoice for the UK flight refers to the hiring of the pilot and to a return flight. Therefore, there were two return flights.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: I have no idea. Perhaps we should move on to something else. My first question is for Mr. Ó Foghlú and Mr. Boland. In February of this year, there was a new memorandum of understanding between the Department of Education and Skills and the Higher Education Authority. Why was there a new one? Was there one previously? If so, what is the difference between the two? Is this...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: It is a new agreement.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: I find it extraordinary that, while almost €1.2 billion in taxpayers' money goes straight from the Department to the Higher Education Authority, there was no formal written memorandum of understanding between the two organisations. Some of the issues pertaining to the third level colleges arose in the 2010 audit. Consider the position in which we found ourselves early this year....

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: I have no problem with any of that. Mr. Ó Foghlú has highlighted to me what I regard to be across-the-board issues, not specific ones. The audited accounts refer to a figure of €1.2 billion in Government funding for 2011. The figure was the same the year before. A formal memorandum of understanding was not in place between the Department and the HSE. Can Mr. Ó...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: There was never a suggestion from this side that there was anything untoward. The HEA has annual accounts and there are internal financial controls on page one. I would have expected the Department to have internal financial control mechanisms in place. I am pleased the system is in place now but I am surprised to hear it has not always been in place. I had a quick glance at the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: It is unfortunate that we are meeting the HEA today for its yearly visit and the annual report is due out tomorrow. It would have been useful if we could have been given a draft of the report a day or two ago even though it will not be published until tomorrow. The same issue arose with the National Asset Management Agency earlier in the summer. It attended a meeting and its annual...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: It is better than translating it into German.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: I wish to raise one issue on the cash flow situation from the HEA to the various third level institutes. I accept it is only a small part of it, but up to now the local authorities have paid student support grants to third level institutes. Now, we have this new organisation that we all know as SUSI – Student Universal Support Ireland. I have been dealing with it on behalf of...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: The issue of subsidiaries is in the report. Many of them are audited. Through the delegates or the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General, can a full list of subsidiaries, a list of every one of the third level institutions, be sent to us along with the last dates of audit? I do not know whether subsidiaries are audited by the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General or whether...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Are they all included?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: With regard to foreign travel by staff, Mr. Boland said he has approximately 58 staff. I do not necessarily expect him to have all the detail to hand. On note 5 on page 12 of the annual accounts, a figure for foreign travel of €59,185 is listed. On page 13, a sum of €5,645 is mentioned regarding foreign travel in respect of the IRCHSS. Mr. Boland might tell the public what...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Are they under Mr. Boland's remit?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed)
Higher Education Authority - Annual Financial Statements 2011: Discussion
(4 Oct 2012)

Seán Fleming: Under whose remit?

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