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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. The point I am making is that there is a big difference between 75% coverage and 99.9% coverage, the latter being the ideal. We need to increase coverage from 75% to 85% or 90%. It is not okay to say just because we cannot meet 100% we cannot have a discussion on the issue. We need to increase the level of coverage. I ask that the Department forward to the committee...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is that data not published?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Ó hÓbáin to arrange for the most recent report to be sent to the committee. Reference was made to a repeater, which enables a signal transmitted to a house to be repeated, and the recent licensing of repeaters. How many households have repeaters?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Perhaps the witnesses will get that information for the committee. I read in the documentation provided this morning that licences for repeaters have been issued. I would like to know how many repeaters have been installed. I tried to get one from one of the biggest operators in the country but I was refused it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am sure the witnesses are sensing a level of frustration from rural Deputies in regard to mobile phone coverage. Given the less than satisfactory delivery of mobile phone coverage and the fact that the same institutions are involved in the delivery of both, I am sure they understand our scepticism when it comes to the national broadband plan. When it comes to negotiating tenders and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Very well. That is the first thing. I would like a clarification. I am reading a sentence in a reply to a parliamentary question I asked, dated 7 September 2018. The question reference number is 35974/18. There is a paragraph describing all the wonderful initiatives mapping the black spots. The reply states:In addition to its work on handset testing, following a consultation process,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: The State and the private sector are putting money in. It is a public private partnership of a type. I would like to clarify this. This infrastructure is not a design and build programme. Is that correct? I am comparing it to other PPPs with which people are familiar. To use the usual terms, it is not a design and build programme; it is not a design, build and operate programme; and it...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: So there are no upfront costs to the State from this broadband plan.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: What do we want to know in advance? We have spoken this morning about the State pre-paying for services that may not ultimately be delivered. This is a rolling situation. In the case of the school projects held by Carillion the State had not paid up. The PPP company was carrying the cost until such time as it handed it over, and then the State was to pay an annual leasing. The State made...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Surely some of these details were referenced when the Department put out the document outlining what it was looking to tender. I hope that information was in there. I presume the Department put this information on eTenders or wherever the process started. Surely there had to be information to give people who might want to express an interest an idea of what they were talking about. That...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: This has been called a gap measure. The Government announced it was adopting a gap-funding model to procure the infrastructure. In that model, the infrastructure is designed, built and operated by the operator and the Government puts in the shortfall. Without disclosing it, is there a figure above which the Department will not go on behalf of the taxpayer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: In previous PPPs, it has often been the case that a preferred bidder is identified but it is never brought to conclusion. Up to that point, are all costs to date being worn by the consortium that is putting in the bid? Is the State caught for any costs up to the signing of the contract? Are we paying for the bidders to put in their tender?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I mean in relation to the other side.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: The cost to the State of professional fees has been €23 million to date. That is fine. I want to establish that when the preferred bidder is identified, there is still no contract in place. I ask the witnesses to talk us through the process. Once the preferred bidder is identified, what is the process by which the contract gets signed? Talk me through the process between those two...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Would it be helpful if we had the senior KPMG person advising on this before the Committee on Public Accounts? Mr. Ó hÓbáin said he is not an engineer. I do not know if he is an accountant. It is a somewhat left-field question. We did not suggest that. The witnesses can understand where we are coming from and why I ask the question. I have made the point. We will move...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is that months' of work?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: As such, there is essentially no contract with the State until the contract is signed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: So in theory, even after the preferred bidder stage, if the bidder feels that the State is being too onerous in the contract negotiations it can walk. In theory, if the State is not satisfied that the preferred bidder is doing what it wants, its representatives could decide the process is not working out.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Can that happen?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Tell me about the communication. ComReg is involved. Will that body be the regulator of the service, as it is for mobile telephone services? What will ComReg's role be after the process?

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