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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: The only real loser in this is the mortgage holder, the person who took out the mortgage originally. They more than likely have lost-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: True but they lost nonetheless, and is also then faced with having to - if they would want to do it - go to court against the bank while having no money. They are really a class of people who are beaten down by the daunting task of having to face a bank with deep pockets.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: There is no legal aid there.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Bearing in mind "equality of arms", they rely on the judge.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Not with great success, it would appear, so that is that part of it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: That brings us to today's discussion. Regarding that safe harbour, and the forbearance that Mr. Honohan spoke about earlier on, one would imagine then that it is for the future and the courts to ensure that safe harbour is afforded to as many people as it can who cannot afford to pay their loan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: That is EU law but in the light of the conversation earlier regarding who tells who about the law, one would hope that someone tells the courts about the law.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: That is a reply from the Central Bank to Mr. Honohan?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Okay. Can Mr. Honohan explain to me and everyone the retail credit firms? We have the funds, which have a front-of-house representation. The funds own the loan, the mortgage or whatever it might be, and the service provider is simply managing.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: It is not a bank; it is just a management company.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: However, they are not banks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: They are not entitled, therefore, to increased interest rates.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: If a person was to invest an awful lot of money in a fund, he or she might get a return of 1%, 2% or 3%. I am talking about the fund itself, depending on what it is. However, this fund is now in a position to increase its chances of huge interest rates by just saying it will increase the interest rates to the European average of, say, 6%, 7% or 9% and, therefore, now, they are really making...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Meanwhile, the value of the property right now has gone upwards. They are winning every way. Again, it-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: The unfortunates caught in this cycle at the bottom of all this are the ones whose lives are being destroyed by all this greed and grabbing by those funds.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: I have heard about people who have lost their lives because of this. I have heard of people who have taken their own lives because of it. I have heard of families being destroyed because of it. I have heard of individuals, families and businesses who have gone to the courts and have not gotten the appropriate redress. In terms of the quotes Mr. Honohan has given us from the various...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Even if it was only the basic redress.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Okay. What are the non-banking entities that hold 112,000 or 113,000 mortgages?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: I am what?

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