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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: That would equate to an average cost per person of approximately €75,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: It would be helpful in order to get a picture of where we are going. We are dealing with the minutiae of 27 staff here and there with allowances, but it is important to know where we are starting. The average is approximately €76,435. That includes senior academic posts down to the people lower down.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: I understand that but those are the full-time posts. The witness has indicated that he does not understand what figure I am using but I am using the one read out to us an hour ago.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: It came from the briefing note. I am just asking for context. The college educates 17,000 students and employs 2,839 full-time equivalent staff, of whom 1,365 are academic, with the remainder being library, technical, administrative and support staff. This is the information provided by the witnesses to us. We just want a picture of Trinity before delving into specific employment. The...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: Could the witness explain that as we are confused?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: It is the total college.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: I am not distinguishing the source of income between State grants, grants in lieu of fees, State-funded research, deferred capital income, student fees, non-State funded or commercial income. The income figure for the year the witness has given is €320 million. There are 2,839 whole-time equivalent staff. That translates to €76,436 average staff cost. Can the witness break...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: It is €76,436, and I am not saying: "Let us say." It is the figure of €320 million which the witness gave us and the staff figure of 2,839. One divided into the other gives a total of €76,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: It is the Comptroller and Auditor General's briefing document presented to the committee for its meeting on 27 September. It has six pages. The last sentence of the six page briefing note submitted to us states that Trinity College will be happy to elaborate on any of the issues in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. I am asking a basic question, which is the average staff cost...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: Yes, the witness told me it is €217 million. What is the breakdown of that between academic and non-academic staff?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: That is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: The witness should provide as much detail as possible on that in terms of how the institution chooses to break down the academic and non-academic staff according to the different grades. There was a specific breakdown in the briefing note to the committee of the non-academic staff between library, technical, administrative and support services. Perhaps the witness would give us the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: Okay. The other issue I wish to raise is cash balances across all the colleges. People will be surprised to read in page 13 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's special report of the net cash balances in the universities and institutes of technology. At the end of 2010 there was €573 million in cash sitting in the bank. At the end of the 2011 academic year there was €706...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: What is it-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: If the witness will bear with me, I will come to that recommended cash balance because I do not accept that recommendation for a minute. I do not believe this committee will accept it either by the time we are finished considering it. We will come to that report shortly because it is referred to again at the bottom of page 13. We have representatives of the best third level institutions in...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: Were they in bank shares-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: -----or in cash?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: The Higher Education Authority, HEA, produced a report some years. It is stated at the end of page 13 that the report of the working group recommended that third level institutions should have between 45 and 60 day's income in cash to enable them to respond to opportunities and risk in many of their day-to-day activities. We accept it is good to have a cash balance. However, the overall...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: Just so we all understand, there is €700 million in the bank. In the sector, what percentage – a ballpark figure – of the total income would be State income and student income as opposed to commercial income? Would it be one third of the total income?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (27 Sep 2012)

Seán Fleming: Trinity College would probably be high up.

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