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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: When will they be released?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: What is the capital value of the school bundle 5?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: What is that value over 25 years?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: Surely people need to know how much they are paying. Mr. Howard talked about value for money earlier on, the taxpayers' money, and citizens' money that is being used.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: We hide behind commercial sensitivity again-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: -----as we do with so many of these things, which I believe is totally off. While I hope we can have another round of questions, I will finish with what I believe to be important point on the problems that are being caused as matters stand, with students being expected to sit in schools and the Department of Education and Skills abdicating responsibility on the issue of stolen property....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: If I supply or sell Mr. Cahillane something, there is no point in paying somebody else for it and saying it is paid for. I would not have received my money. Something is not paid for until the person receives his or her money.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: With regard to Sammon Contracting, Mr. Cahillane said earlier that Carillion were paid up to 31 December. Does that mean that everything, including, for example, materials supplied on 29 December were paid for?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: All was paid to Sammon Contracting, everything that was supplied was paid for-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: Did the witness do any due diligence on Sammon Contracting? The NDFA must have been informed when Sammon Contracting was taken on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: Did anyone at within the Department or within Government look at Sammon Contracting to assess its stability? No.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: That is the risk the people who are going to lose their jobs and the contractors that are going to go out of business are paying for. It is they who are paying for it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: It is important to state we have provided solutions today as to how this can be done in a different way. The model that has been in use is flawed and it has had an impact. This shows the usefulness of this committee. To protect subcontractors in the future, can it not be legislated that the State will insist on the main contractor taking out a bond to protect subcontractors and ensure,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: Can it be done?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: Why not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: On behalf of this committee, I ask the Department to give it serious consideration.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: Please do so and revert to the committee.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: I am asking whether we can do it as legislators. Can it be legislated for? I would appreciate it if the answer could be given to the committee through the Chair. I return to the EU directive that provided for this. Given the roles that the NDFA and the Department have, it concerns me that advice was not sought from them on the scrutiny of this legislation and how it could be put in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: I find it quite alarming because it says to me that there has been negligence here. The EU directive outlines exactly how the contracting authority may be required by a member state to ask the tenderer to indicate in its tender any share of the contract it may intend to subcontract to third parties and any proposed subcontractors. That would give the chain of responsibility and would allow...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Rose Conway Walsh: That is why we have a responsibility to protect it. It is high risk but there are measures that can be put in place to make it less high risk. The directive states, for example, that the contracting authority shall require the main contractor to indicate to the contracting authority the name, contact details and legal representatives of its subcontractors involved in such works or services,...

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