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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: It is a matter for the committee how it schedules its work on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: That is the intention, yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: On engaging with women who have travelled abroad, there will be input through various channels. First, the women can input through the public consultation process. Second, service providers who might be providing continuity of care in Ireland may also do so. I have no doubt the civil society groups to which the Senator referred will also have an input. I am not concerned about the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes, I, too, would prefer the chair to have been appointed and I am sure that the Deputy will appreciate that I must act on the recent advice that I have received. On the point made about policy versus operation, yes, we must take a very common sense approach. Ultimately, the point is that this review is not meant to re-open the debate about repeal. That debate has been settled and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes. I do not think that we want to set conditions on what can and cannot be recommended. Let us see what they come up with and then, as an Oireachtas, we will look at that. Yes, there could be policy implications. The Deputy asked whether there are things we can do in tandem to improve services. Yes, and we do not have to wait. If there are things that we know can be improved now...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: We are doing a lot in tandem. Yes, we are absolutely not waiting on this review to act in ways where we can improve the situation. As we discussed earlier, I am legislating for safe access zones and that will come before the committee, as we said, in the coming months for legislative scrutiny. We are absolutely not waiting on the review for this. Free contraception was one of the other...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: It was official advice from the Department to me that the process would have to be gone through given the scale of the money involved.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: That is correct, yes. To be absolutely clear because the Deputy asked whether there is a political element, there is zero political element. This is advice that I recently got from the Department on what would be required to authorise the spending of this money.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Deputy. I cannot speak to other processes and inquiries. I can only speak to the official advice I have from the Department, specific to this chair. The clear advice from the Department is that there is a legal requirement. Therefore, I am taking that advice. I know it is frustrating for the committee and for all of us, but I do not think anyone would suggest that I should...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I am not sure. The Deputy would have to ask my predecessor why it was stood down. I have ongoing engagement with the national women and infants health programme. There is regular contact across the HSE with regard to the provision of services. The national women and infants health programme is putting in place new reviews to look, for example, at adverse events. Any maternity service in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes, we cannot pre-judge what recommendations will come back from this work. We can be clear that it is not within the purpose or scope of this work to address policy questions independently, for all of the reasons we have discussed this morning and the Deputy has just set out. However, the scope covers all operational aspects of the Bill. I think we would all accept that the independent...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: The consideration of any legislation, which this is, falls to the Oireachtas. The Oireachtas is empowered to consider any legislation before it. However, I agree with the Deputy's position that the major policy issues, relating to the three days, 12 weeks and so on, have been voted on clearly in a referendum, with much of this detail pre-published for exactly the reasons the Deputy stated.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I cannot give any answer about what changes may be required. We have to let the work happen. We have to see what policy recommendations come back and then we can consider those.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: The Deputy's first question is about legislative change. We are not ruling anything in or out. Let us see what the report comes back with. It may be operational, regulatory or legislative. We do not know. We are not precluding anything but I am cognisant of the points Deputy Durkan and others have made that this is not about reviewing the major policy decisions that have been voted on and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I disagree on the terms of reference. They are a matter for Government and are ultimately agreed by Government. Independent chairs can have input into terms of reference but those terms for statutory reviews are, in the first instance, a matter for Government. It is right and proper that the terms of reference are set by Government. I have no problem in sharing the criteria for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I cannot commit to anything until we see the recommendations. I commit that we will review the recommendations but not to acting on recommendations that have not been made yet.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Nothing will be precluded.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Senator for that. It is not legal advice I have received; it is official advice. It is not a legal note; it is advice from the Department that this is the requirement. With regard to consulting the Attorney General or anyone else, I suggest we get a detailed note to the committee from the Department. Then we can consider whether that would be required.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I do not think it could be clearer. I have received advice from the Department that this is a requirement. I have not received a letter from a lawyer, which is what I would consider legal advice. It is official advice from the Department. It is the Department's view.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I have said it a few times, but just to repeat it, I am not satisfied with the level of information the committee received. I have been a member of the Joint Committee on Health myself and I have been on various other committees for a decade, and I am not satisfied with the level of information provided to the committee. It is something that I am going to be discussing. With regard to...

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