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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: The questions we are dealing with now are exactly the point of the committee session. Should we not just go into normal question and answers at this point? I am happy to do whatever the Chair wants.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Deputy I will ask Ms Luddy to come in after me. The short answer is "Yes". We had several sessions. We had sessions with civil society, service providers and an Oireachtas group. Various views were given. Some were of the view that the most important aspect is a human rights-based approach. Others were of the view that clinical expertise is very important. Where I came down...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes, this is correct. To be honest the independent chair is not really required for phase 1. Phase 1 is a very broad consultation piece. Research is being conducted by the HSE. There is a public consultation that will be managed by the Department. It involves service users, service providers and public consultation. The chair will then look through all of this information and assess it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I will ask Ms Luddy to come in on this.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: The Deputy's question is whether there will be an overlap and whether a chair will be in situwhile phase 1 is still going on so he or she can help inform it. The answer is "Yes".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: It means the policy will be looked at by the independent chair in so far as it is relevant to the operation of the Act.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: It would be deemed to be inside the scope of the review if it is causing operational difficulties. However, we need to be very clear that this is not a review of the policy. The policy is agreed. It is a review of the operation of the policy. If the operation of the policy uncovers issues that require recommendations on the policy, that is in scope. However, we are not reopening the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: It is a question of full services versus partial services. I might ask Ms Luddy to give a detailed response on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes, most definitely. I am open to correction by the lawyers but my understanding is the same as the Deputy's. We discussed this at great length during the passage of the Bill. My recollection is that it was absolutely clear that, of course, individuals may object but no institution may.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I would need to look at the exact contents of its statement. I have met representatives of groups who are asking that the policy, itself, be reviewed as part of this. One of the ones they use is exactly this. It has come up several times. Several groups want the Act to be more liberal. For example, they want the three-day waiting period taken away as a matter of policy regardless of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Absolutely. It is the entire operation of the Act. I will give one quick example on exactly this point. During the Covid pandemic, an operational decision was taken that the consultation between a woman and her GP could be remote, whereas when we were passing this Act it was very much part of the discussion that they should meet up. I think we spent a lot of time discussing what was meant...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Deputy. When I have finished, I will ask Ms Luddy to come in on exactly the e-tendering process that will be used. In preparing for the review, I consulted with a wide group of people, including Oireachtas Members, service providers and civil society. What came back strongly across the board was an ask for an independent chair. Often the advice I have is that if the operation...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: It will go up today but, from what I have seen, I do not foresee any issues.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Exactly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Typically, the Department comes to me with a shortlist of recommendations from which I will choose.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Deputy. I share her frustration about this morning. I do not believe this is how it should have worked. The committee should have had the terms of reference last night and the intention was that all the relevant information would be on the Department's website before this meeting. I accept the committee's frustration on that point. The terms of reference were informed by...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: On the Deputy's first question, namely, will the views of service users also be taken on board in terms of potential changes to policy and of the operation of and potential amendments to the legislation, yes, they will. That applies to service providers, the public consultation process and service users. My view is that the most important group of people in this process are the service...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I would go further and state that I think the single most important group we are going to listen to are the women themselves.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: That is a good question. I can certainly take a look at that. I can give the Deputy an absolute undertaking that the entire point of this review is to listen to the women themselves, the service providers and the public with a view to seeing what changes may be required.

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