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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: -----and what decisions it wishes to make. Of course I have a view. We will make those decisions in the next week or so. The House will have a role with regard to taxation matters through financial resolutions that may need to be brought forward, and also legislation that will have to be brought forward to give permanent effect to any changes we wish to make. The House will, therefore,...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: Again, that is a decision for the Government to make. More than €30 million so far has been claimed in that regard. We are seeing more and more businesses applying now. They can claim back the previous four months. In fact, Revenue has allowed them to go all the way back to September. It is difficult to estimate how exactly how much will be drawn down for TBESS even under the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: -----that bill will grow over time as more businesses qualify and more businesses get around to claiming all the way back to last September. That is, therefore, a figure that will change.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: Not all of that sum identified by the Deputy is for 2023. I believe half of that was-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: -----in 2022. Only a very small amount of that was used in 2022 but as the Deputy knows, we cannot carry forward unused current expenditure. The other half of it is pencilled in and is in the Revised Estimates volume for 2023. More than €30 million has been claimed so far but that number is increasing all the time. More and more businesses are now applying and claiming...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: The projections depend on what changes we might make to the scheme if we extend it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: The original projection was provided by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications and was based on the knowledge and information it had with regard to energy costs. It has proven to be a high estimate based on the applications so far, however. That said, as the Deputy knows, we have seen a very significant improvement in wholesale prices. While reductions have not been...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: Approximately €350 million is the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment Vote for TBESS for 2023.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: The balance was in 2022 but that is closed out at this point.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: As things stand, the scheme is due to close at the end of February until the Government makes another decision.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: Yes, I do not have-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: I do not have a specific figure for what we estimate, based on the current run rate, that it will be. It is fair to say that if the conditions do not change and if we do not extend it, it will be a long way short of the budgetary provision that was made. That is self-evident.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: We could provide a projection but that is all it would be. We do not know how many businesses will now apply and how many will go back to last September, because they are still eligible for that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: As the Deputy will know, this arose in the context of the Commission on Taxation and Welfare and the commentary it made in the report. The Minister, Deputy Donohoe, made a commitment in his budget day speech that there would be a review of the REITs; the Irish real estate fund, IREF; the section 110s; and so on. The terms of reference for that are now being finalised. I cannot give the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: Is the Chairman referring to the overall account?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: I only have a certain amount of information in front of me. I am not sure I have the total picture the Deputy is looking for but we can certainly provide it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: Yes, that is all available.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: I will revert to the Chairman's initial question and give him partial information, but we will write to the committee with a full statement of account regarding the capitalisation that was invested and the amount we have received back at this stage. A total of €29.4 billion was invested in AIB, Bank of Ireland and Permanent TSB over the period from 2009 to 2011. To date,...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(15 Feb 2023)

Michael McGrath: Yes, of course. I will give a full breakdown.

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