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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Therefore, the two numbers that are relevant to the mortgage crisis are PIAs and DSAs. Does the witness have an estimate as to how many will be completed by the end of this year?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: A four-figure number, so 1,000 or 9,000.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: So the witness-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Mr. O'Connor referred to a four-figure number. Does 2,000 or 3,000 seem reasonable?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Is Mr. O'Connor's estimate in the low thousands or high thousands? It is important.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Let us suppose the figure is 4,000 by the end of the year for cases either in train or completed, whether personal insolvency arrangements, PIAs, or debt settlement arrangements, DSAs. These are the two arrangements relevant to the mortgage crisis, which is what the committee is addressing. Does that seem like a reasonable estimate to Mr. O'Connor, notwithstanding everything he has said?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Here is my problem. I know Mr. O'Connor and his team are doing the best they can with the legislation they have been given. I would prefer that number to be greater because, for all the flaws that the insolvency legislation has, it is none the less a superior mechanism to what we are seeing in the voluntary arrangements. The spirit of the insolvency legislation, which some banks have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: My problem with the voluntary arrangements is that, in the case of many of the banks, over 90% of the so-called sustainable restructures actually end up in higher payments being made over the lifetime of the debt. We have the figures from the banks. For example, I have seen the figure from Bank of Ireland and it amounts to well over 90%. Term extensions increase total payments,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Mr. O'Connor has referred to information campaign and the protocol. Is there anything else? Are there any other big-ticket items?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Let us return to the figure of 4,000. We accept it may be 2,000, 1,000 or 8,000, but we are using 4,000. Does this estimate include the information campaign and the protocols?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: I understand that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Let me rephrase the question. We are discussing this figure of 4,000. Accepting that it is a range, does Mr. O'Connor believe the protocol and information campaign may bring it up to 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 or 40,000?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Neither do I. I believe the protocol and information campaign, rightly, have been figured in because they are things the service is already planning on doing. Therefore, when we are discussing the estimate of the ISI for the end of the year, it is right and proper that the service should include them. Here is my question. A figure of 4,000 is not enough. It is great for the 4,000...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: I accept that. However, Mr. O'Connor has been asked by several members about the nature of the mechanisms to which he referred. He indicated in his opening statement that if the banks do not play ball, there will be mechanisms in play to address that. The reality, of course, is that the banks have explicitly stated that they will not play ball and some of them have never played ball. The...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: I am sorry to cut across Mr. O'Connor, but the time remaining to me is limited. Mr. O'Connor is staying within his own parameters, but I am asking him to think outside those parameters. If the Minister for Finance came to Mr. O'Connor and asked for 40,000 cases to be resolved by the end of the year instead of 4,000, what would it take to achieve that? I am envisaging a situation where the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: I am going to push Mr. O'Connor on this because I do not know whether he really cannot think of any changes that might be made or whether he is reluctant to do so. Certainly, every member of this committee could name two or three things straight off that they would like to see done. Can Mr. O'Connor genuinely not think of anything that would double, treble or quadruple the numbers, or does...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: The Acting Chairman took up some time, so I would appreciate if the Chairman would allow me some leeway.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Thank you, Chairman. Will Mr. Lehane respond to the question I put to him and Mr. O'Connor?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: Mr. Lehane is the expert on this issue in this country. There are things that could be done to increase the credibility of the threat, including, for example, reducing the discharge period from three years to two or adjusting the maximum duration of the income payment order. What one, two or three policy changes would Mr. Lehane make - these changes could potentially be time bound to two or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process (Resumed): Insolvency Service of Ireland (30 Apr 2014)

Stephen Donnelly: My specific question was what Mr. Lehane might change in the current regime. There are levers that can be pulled all over the legislation. If we want to make the process more accessible and more of a credible threat, which of those levers would Mr. Lehane pull first?