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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Collection and Recycling of Farm Plastics: Discussion (29 Jun 2021)

Matt Carthy: I will try to put this in a context that non-farmers might understand by comparing it to something similar I might experience in my life. If I am buying a new fridge, I can leave the old fridge with the guy I am buying the new fridge from and he has the responsibility for disposing of it safely. It is a similar situation if I am buying new tyres for my car.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Collection and Recycling of Farm Plastics: Discussion (29 Jun 2021)

Matt Carthy: It is very different in this instance. Farmers pay €160 per tonne. That goes to one company but that company does not have an obligation to ensure that the product is safely disposed of and recycled. The company has an obligation for 70% of that material and therein lies the problem. I was taken aback by some of the comments considering the IFFPG is a not-for-profit organisation....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Collection and Recycling of Farm Plastics: Discussion (29 Jun 2021)

Matt Carthy: Has this scheme been stress-tested against EU competition law? We heard earlier about private collectors who are essentially doing the same job as the IFFPG but do not receive any portion of the levy that is mandatory for those who are purchasing the product.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Collection and Recycling of Farm Plastics: Discussion (29 Jun 2021)

Matt Carthy: There is an issue in terms of local or smaller collectors and the scale that would be operated. We can assume none of those collectors would be anywhere close to the IFFPG. The difficulty I have is that far from being a polluter-pays system where producers have responsibility, producers are instead being let off the hook. They collect the levy from farmers but once it goes outside the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Collection and Recycling of Farm Plastics: Discussion (29 Jun 2021)

Matt Carthy: I will reiterate the point that the difficulty I have with the scheme is that a company, a not-for-profit company but a company nonetheless, is getting €160 for every tonne of plastic that is sold without having the obligation even to attempt to collect it all. There is no obligation on the company to collect it all. The scheme, therefore, de facto recognises that a significant...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Is it fair to say that the position of the board is that it will not give an updated cost of the project?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Does the board have a definitive estimate?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: No.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Does the board have an upper limit in terms of an estimate of how much this project could potentially cost?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: The board has, I presume, analysed the claims and assessed the likelihood of any of them being successful or otherwise and, looking at inflation, it has an idea as to what the maximum cost of this project will be?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Has the board shared that information with the Department of Health?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: That is as clear as mud. Mr. Gunning said the board shared information a number of months ago and also that it continues to share information. Which is it? Does the Department of Health have the current likely maximum figure?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Does the board engage with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform? Is that Department aware of the figures?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Let me put my question to Ms Prendergast. Is she satisfied the Department of Health is aware of the maximum estimated cost at this stage?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I am sorry to interrupt Ms Prendergast but the time is very limited. Is she satisfied the Department is aware of the projected upper limit cost of this project?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Is that information shared with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: In essence, is it the Department's case today that it cannot divulge that information due to commercial sensitivities?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: In 2016, however, the Department was able to inform us the estimated cost was approximately €800 million. In 2018, it was able to tell us the estimated cost was €983 million. In December 2019, the Department was able to inform us the estimated cost was €1.43 billion. Was the Department not cognisant of commercial sensitivities at those times?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Does Ms Prendergast have any idea how crazy it sounds that the Department was able to give an estimated cost before, and at the early stages of, a project but, in the heart of that project, which has been severely delayed, commercial sensitivities mean the people who will be paying for this hospital, namely, the taxpayers of Ireland, cannot be informed as to what the potential maximum cost...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: 2019 Financial Statement (Resumed) (13 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Is it the case, then, that it is only when the bill comes in that the public will be told how much they are on the hook for?

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