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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: Normally, there is an opening statement. We normally open with remarks from the witness. That is common and accepted practice. If Mr. Fraser would not mind, I ask him to pass some remark on this matter because it has been in the public domain and he will be aware of the issues involved.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: We have a list of speakers.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: I call Deputy Tóibín followed by Senator Casey, and Deputies Mairéad Farrell, McNamara and Durkan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: As Deputy McNamara is not available, I call Deputy Durkan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: We are straying into matters that relate directly to health, which are not appropriate to the meeting.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: The Deputy is pressing Mr. Fraser and, quite frankly, he is saying it is a matter for the Department of Health. He has not been asked to address those issues today.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: Maybe the committee needs to take up the-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: He is here to address the issues relative to this committee within its remit on the appointment or otherwise and the processes involved in the secondment. The issues the Deputy is raising seem to be broader health issues which are not for this committee but we can take it up on another day if the Deputy wishes. I am listening to the questions the Deputy is asking and I am listening to the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: Okay, we can deal with that another day. Right now we are dealing with Mr. Fraser in relation to the secondment issue and in general the processes involved in that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: I am not excluding the Deputy's question. I am simply saying Mr. Fraser has answered and I do not think he will add to that answer because either he cannot, he does not know or it is not for his Department. The Deputy will have to take that answer and then we will have to deal with it in terms of our work programme later on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: What whose role is?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: I am after clarifying it. I will not cut the Deputy short. If he wants to ask the question again or if Mr. Fraser wants to comment further on it that is fine but in the absence of an answer that satisfies the Deputy I cannot do much about it. Does Mr. Fraser have anything further to add to the answers already given to Deputy Durkan?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: Does Deputy Durkan have another question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: We can do that but perhaps these are matters the Deputy should have raised when we decided to ask Mr. Fraser to come before the committee. We did ask Mr. Watt, as the Deputy knows, and he declined and did not attend.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: Mr. Fraser, how long have you been with the Department of An Taoiseach?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: In the same Department?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: It is fair to say that you are an experienced civil servant and would know extensively about how the Civil Service operates, its faults and failures as well as the positive side to it, which must be considered too. You have a broad knowledge of it. You are referred to as the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach but in correspondence I often see it stated that you are the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: Would you have much direct engagement-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: What is your interaction in that role with other Secretaries General?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Proposed Appointment to University Research Post: Department of the Taoiseach (27 Apr 2022)

John McGuinness: Yes, so you would have regular meetings with the Secretaries General.

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