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Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: It is always a pleasure.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: I am pleased to reply to the debate, because it was rather wide-ranging, and I want to thank all the Deputies who contributed. I understand the position of the Labour Party and of Sinn Féin. However, I find the position of the Fine Gael Party incredible for the following reason. Fine Gael keep telling us that its FairCare health policy will implement in Ireland the system of universal...

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: Deputy Kenny, for whom I have a good deal of respect, and Deputy Reilly, the Fine Gael spokesman, told us they visited the Netherlands and they intend to implement in Ireland the universal health care system that operates there, where all the hospitals were privatised and the insurers purchase services from the hospitals. Even in the Netherlands, however, people at the very bottom make a...

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: Deputy Reilly is now the deputy leader of his party. In the Netherlands, everybody makes a co-payment, as he knows. No group, no matter how low-down the income threshold gets its care totally free, and everybody makes a contribution. Families at the bottom make a contribution in the region of €600 per year, which is far in excess of what is being imposed here. I shall be honest and say...

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: They cover the same number of people.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: Deputy Reilly will find it interesting that the out of hours service in Northern Ireland is about 30% of what we pay here for the same number of people.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: I am simply making the case that there are enormous cultural and other differences, even between North and South, where there is a similar population, in terms of-----

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: -----the number of items prescribed, whether it is on DPS or GMS. That is a fact.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: Equally, they prescribe 83% generic, as distinct from 11% and 18% here.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: We have reduced the cost by about €350 million a year. There is a reduction in the wholesale margin, down from 17.6% to 10%.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: There is the reduction in the manner in which we pay pharmacists, which was introduced last summer. Again, that was opposed with both parties opposite arguing that it would close 400 pharmacies. It saves about €132 million a year. We negotiated a 39% reduction in off-patent medicines, which will save more than €100 million in a full year, and the last time the contract was negotiated,...

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: The contract is up for negotiation in September. For Deputy Reilly to suggest that we will save hundreds of millions of euro on generics is ludicrous, since the whole market in Ireland is €300 million. Unless the companies give us all the drugs free, we could not save hundreds of millions of euro.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: If we got everything free, then we would save €300 million. The total market for generics in Ireland is €300 million, equivalent to the total production.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: I did not interrupt anybody and I am more than happy to respond to all the points that were made.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: In regard to reference pricing and generic substitution, we are going to legislate for that. Generic substitution in itself would not be adequate because as I indicated, we now have an ironic situation with generics being more expensive since our agreement with the pharmaceutical industry this year than the off-patent prices. That is a ludicrous situation and it will be dealt with in...

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: I do not have recent data on patient volume but five years ago it showed 60% of patients went to Dublin hospitals for surgical procedures, bypassing their local hospitals. That is why we have to build up capacity in the north east.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: I have been reassured by the clinical directors, Dr. Brannigan, and Dr. Power and Dr. O'Neill that the new accident and emergency facilities at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital will be capable of dealing with increased volume.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: The Deputy should look at the throughput at Waterford Regional Hospital which has the busiest accident and emergency department after Tallaght hospital.

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: Yes, but we need all our hospitals to operate to best practice if we are to get the best possible care for our patients. If Deputy Coonan sends me the details of the complaint concerning the family he raised, I will investigate it. I must correct him on another matter. Limerick hospital is not a centre of excellence but a specialist centre. We want everywhere to be a centre of excellence...

Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2010 [Seanad]: Second and Subsequent Stages (7 Jul 2010)

Mary Harney: I said it is a specialist centre and everywhere should be a centre of excellence. Deputy Coonan implied there were only eight centres of excellence. He seems to be confusing the term "excellence" with "specialist". There will be challenges in health service provision. Ireland spends 11% of national income on health services, going by GNP data as GDP data is somewhat unreliable due to the...

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