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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I will need to come back in.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I do not want it to be only the Chair and Deputy Hourigan making this point. Language is important. The phrase "local authorities" has been used. Most of the public hear that in an entirely different way. They hear it as meaning the people they elected to represent them. This is not who we are talking about here. Really it underpins, if anything, that we do not have a local government...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: You need to qualify it.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: They do not know it is going on sometimes.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: What does the Department do and what does it choose when it comes to looking at value for money in respect of the various housing schemes? How does it select those if it is seeking that value for money? I remember saying in 2014, when HAP was introduced, that it would become unsustainable if there was not a large-scale housing building programme. We are hearing about PPPs that have been...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: What has the Department done?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can Mr. Doyle give us a list of what the Department has tested from a value for money perspective?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can we see those?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: To see where there is an assessment of value for money and what the methodology is.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It would be useful to see that because, to be honest, regarding some of this stuff, including these enhanced leases, it is very difficult to see where you could possibly look at that from a value for money perspective and come to the conclusion that there is value for money so let us have a look at those. I have a question about the local government fund, something about which I routinely...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Complex is an understatement.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Would Ms O'Gorman accept that you cannot double your population and not provide the resources to go with that?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Will this be completed in time for the budget this year?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: That will be for next year.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can I correct Ms O'Gorman on one thing? It was not 2014. In fact, it goes back to the needs and resources model, which would have taken account of the census of 1996 as opposed to a more recent census. There is no reason why this could not be reviewed even using the 2016 census. It could then have been amended and it should be amended at each census.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: City of Dublin Education and Training Board has a big budget – €564 million. Therefore, the amounts we will be talking about are relatively small in terms of overall expenditure. I acknowledge that and certainly do not want to diminish the very good work done. The figure for audiovisual equipment is €240,000, that for cleaning contracts is €259,000, that for...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: We now have the additional information. Is it correct that the overall body that co-ordinates the ETBs is based in Naas?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Is there a mechanism for doing procurement for all of the ETBs through that body?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Okay.

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