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Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: I apologise but the Chairman mentioned earlier that the unions were invited to these meetings but refused to attend. Will the Chairman clarify this?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: What reasons did they give?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: I thank the Chairman.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: I will start with the general and then move to the specific. We got this document last week. It is a list of all the allowances and in all the Departments. On going through it, it becomes immediately obvious that the Department of Education and Skills is the winner. It is No. 1 in terms of the number of allowances, followed by the Department of Justice and Equality. It is noticeable that...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: The Department has the highest level of payment of allowances of any Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: Fair enough.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: I am dealing with the culture in the Department that allowed so many allowances to be born. I am interested in the historical origins of those allowances.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: Go ahead.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: I am not interested in that. I am talking about the 300 or 400 allowances. The historic-----

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: No. A person, who is not knowledgeable about the processes in the Department of Education and Skills as to how these allowances were born, casting a cold eye on the different allowances introduced would come to a conclusion very quickly that, historically speaking, the Department of Education was a soft touch when dealing with the unions, one of which is probably the biggest union in the...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: To return to the Ryan tribunal of 1968, qualification allowances were introduced after that. Can Mr. Ó Foghlú give the rationale for its introduction following the Ryan tribunal?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: To return to 1920, Mr. Ó Foghlú has said the qualifications allowance was introduced then and it was adapted after the Ryan tribunal of 1968. What was the rationale for the introduction of the qualifications allowance going back to that time?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: Effectively, it is an inducement for teachers to pursue further education.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: How did the Ryan tribunal change that? Did it further incentivise people or just result in the addition of money to one's salary if one pursued an advanced degree?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: How many of the 300 or 400 allowances are pensionable?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: Is it typical throughout the public service that these obscure allowances, and there are many different allowances, would be pensionable? Many of the allowances in the various Departments throughout the public service are not pensionable.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: I want to stay on this point. Mr. Ó Foghlú said the vast majority of them are pensionable if the person stays in that position, and if it is foreseeable that someone would stay in it. I do not believe that in the case of many of these allowances that are pensionable one could foresee that somebody would stay in that position, for example, the warden of Trinity Hall allowance, the...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: I have some specific questions. Going back to historical origins, an allowance listed is the allowance payable to teachers of apprentices in Dún Laoghaire and County Cork Vocational Education Committees in the post primary area. Can Mr. Ó Foghlú give me an idea how that allowance was created?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: It was what?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Education and Skills - Review of Allowances (24 Oct 2012)

John Deasy: I come back to the question as to whether it was typical that these allowances are pensionable throughout the public service.

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